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Tucker Carlson’s interview with far-right antisemite Nick Fuentes divides conservatives over support for Israel

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zippy2006

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But do you feel the same way when persons of the Left do similar things and they leave no doubt that they are genuine?
Yes, I think so. Else, what do you mean when you talk about "feeling the same way"?

I agree, except that I've never heard him dismiss any criticism on that basis, and I have heard him engage in self-criticism. And he is milder in his comeback now than he was before being de-platformed.
Okay.

I saw that at the time. It wasn't his joke. It was sent in by a viewer and he read it. I don't think it's demented; it's a view held by some scholars of the past who also got cancelled for expressing it.
Much like acting "for effect," I'm not sure how much difference it makes that he read it, unless he read it in order to criticize it or something like that (I am open to being shown the original video). One does not read such things for no reason. Fuentes obviously delights in comparing burning Jews to baking cookies, whether or not the idea was original to him. And are you claiming that scholars of the past got cancelled for making cookie-jokes about the Jews? Because that is precisely what I said was demented.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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This is what is generally considered racism, particularly when combined with the sort of disgust for the race which Fuentes engages in.

You've basically said, "He's not a racist. He just thinks Jews are inferior and need to be devalued appropriately." If that's not racism, then I'm not sure what is. If that's not racism, then Hitler apparently wasn't racist.

This whole Fuentes issue is boggling my mind.
I didn't say he wasn't racist, I was describing how he defines his own position.

If you'll notice my post where I brought that up, I pointed out that "racialists" will claim it's different than "racism", but that it's similar in practical effect.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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So you now want to distinguish the Jewish race from the Jewish religion, and you want to distinguish Hasidic Jews from other Jews, and yet your claims leading up to this point made no such distinctions. You made some blanket comments about the Jewish people from your bailey, and now you've retreated to your motte by claiming that you were only talking about the religion of Hasidic Judaism (cf. motte and bailey fallacy).
Yes, those are positions that I've consistently held.

There is a difference between "Jewish" as a race and "Jewish" as a religion, in terms of discourse.

And I've consistently separated Hasidic Judaism from the rest of it, if you search for my username and the word "Hasidic", you'll see several search results across quite a few different threads.

The same way I've drawn distinctions between the LDS and FLDS sects of Mormonism.

I haven't retreated on any of my positions.
A subset of some religion is not "a people." The Jews are "a people."

This sort of equivocation and backpedaling is taken straight out of the playbook of folks like Tucker and Fuentes.
The only one doing dishonest equivocations are the Ted Cruzs of the world who attempt to conflate "objections to giving unwavering support and blank checks to Israel" or "criticizing the behavior of the settlers" with "antisemitism"
 
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Chesterton

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Yes, I think so. Else, what do you mean when you talk about "feeling the same way"?
You said you felt he was problematic. How do you solve a problem like Maria Nick? :) I've never heard him seriously advocate or praise violence the way Ward Churchill did, for example. That's where I draw the line with free speech, so I don't see Nick as problematic, especially when there are lots of non-white folks advocating violence against whites. No one of them is as well known as Nick, but that's actually problematic, because the violence actually happens.
Much like acting "for effect," I'm not sure how much difference it makes that he read it, unless he read it in order to criticize it or something like that (I am open to being shown the original video). One does not read such things for no reason. Fuentes obviously delights in comparing burning Jews to baking cookies, whether or not the idea was original to him. And are you claiming that scholars of the past got cancelled for making cookie-jokes about the Jews? Because that is precisely what I said was demented.
It was not about comparing Jews to cookies, it's about the math involved with the 6 million number. It's not even a joke, I don't understand it, it's incoherent as far as I can tell, but that was the ostensible reason YouTube gave for his getting banned.

 
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Hans Blaster

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Plenty of others have shunned Carlson and Fuentes too who are of white ethnicity ( I personally don’t believe in race except one human race) as per scripture

Actually conservatives of all ethnicities have been calling out Tucker and denouncing Fuentes. It is true some may be worried about votes next year, but most are from conviction.
I referenced the ones that were in the post. I did not compile a list.
Rod Dreher, an Orthodox Christian whose substack I subscribe to has been quite vocal about it.
Doesn't he work for Russia?
He has said that antisemitism is the civilizational canary in the coal mine. Also ,unfortunately, Democrats have their own antisemitsm problem as well, (from the river to the sea-etc)
and some of these principled conservatives do not want this creeping into the Republican party. Fuentes is IMO Taliban dressed in "Christian" costume.
Fuentes fits fine within in the historical range of Christians (unfortunately). They've been doing anti-semitism since before there was islam.
 
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Hans Blaster

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It was not about comparing Jews to cookies, it's about the math involved with the 6 million number. It's not even a joke, I don't understand it, it's incoherent as far as I can tell, but that was the ostensible reason YouTube gave for his getting banned.
It was about talking about the ovens (crematoria) at the concentration camps in crude "code". If anyone had any doubt as to if Fuentes was a vile person prior to that video, that video makes it clear. It (and he) was banned for a good reason which is why I didn't quote that video and you should edit it out of your post.
 
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Chesterton

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zippy2006

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It was not about comparing Jews to cookies, it's about the math involved with the 6 million number. It's not even a joke, I don't understand it, it's incoherent as far as I can tell, but that was the ostensible reason YouTube gave for his getting banned.
So you don't understand the connection that was being made between baking cookies and the krematorien of the Nazi concentration camps?
 
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Chesterton

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So you don't understand the connection that was being made between baking cookies and the krematorien of the Nazi concentration camps?
Well I thought I did, maybe I'm wrong. What do you think the connection is?
 
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LizaMarie

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I referenced the ones that were in the post. I did not compile a list.

Doesn't he work for Russia?

Fuentes fits fine within in the historical range of Christians (unfortunately). They've been doing anti-semitism since before there was islam.
Uh, because he's Orthodox he works for Russia? I don't get it.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Uh, because he's Orthodox he works for Russia? I don't get it.
Dreher lives in Hungary. I thought it was Russia, though Hungary is almost a Russian client state. I have no idea what his religion is, nor do I care.
 
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LizaMarie

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Dreher lives in Hungary. I thought it was Russia, though Hungary is almost a Russian client state. I have no idea what his religion is, nor do I care.
He's an American expatriate who lives in HUngary. American citizen, Orthodox convert. Not sure what branch Orthodox. Not a fan of Victor Orban myself. Dreher has written some good books about totalitarianism that I have read, " Live not by Lies."
 
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essentialsaltes

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And the President of Heritage Foundation who defended Tucker for giving him a soft ball interview has resigned. So there's hope there.
Apparently he has not resigned, but is 'willing' to do so. And apologized.

EXCLUSIVE: ‘I Made A Mistake’: Heritage Foundation President Apologizes to Staff for Video Refusal to Cancel Tucker Carlson and Throws Shade at Former Chief of Staff

'I made a mistake and I let you down and I let down this institution. Period. Full Stop,' Kevin Roberts told employees at an all-staff meeting on Wednesday​

Roberts said he was willing to resign but felt a "moral obligation" to repair the situation and had told the organization’s board of directors: "I made the mess, let me clean it up."

The Washington Free Beacon obtained and reviewed a video of the meeting. "If we see someone leaking, you’re fired," Eric Korsvall, the organization’s chief operating officer, said during the question and answer portion of the meeting.

[Roberts] added that he wasn’t actually very familiar with the white nationalist, Stalin fan, and J.D. Vance critic Nick Fuentes, with whom Carlson conducted a friendly interview last week on his podcast, though Roberts has spoken several times in recent days about the size of Fuentes’s audience and argued that "canceling" him, given his listenership, which Roberts pegged at 5 million people, will simply make him more popular.

"I didn’t know much about this Fuentes guy," he said. "I still don’t."

--
But the apology may not be enough, because plenty of people are resigning.

US Jewish groups bail from Heritage Foundation’s antisemitism initiative over Tucker Carlson

Project Esther, launched as conservative strategy to fight Jew-hatred, appears to be unraveling after foundation’s president defended TV personality’s friendly interview with antisemite Nick Fuentes​

At least eight individuals and organizations affiliated with Heritage’s National Task Force to Combat Antisemitism, launched last year under the Project Esther banner, have resigned or threatened to do so, citing Heritage president Kevin Roberts’s decision to stand by Carlson and his description of the television personality’s critics as a “venomous coalition.”

Conceived as a counterweight to the Biden administration’s 2023 antisemitism strategy, Heritage’s Project Esther plan focused almost entirely on left-wing and pro-Palestinian activism, portraying what it called a “Hamas Support Network” as the chief driver of antisemitism in America.

From the outset, the project drew skepticism for not including most mainstream Jewish organizations and for downplaying antisemitism on the political right. That tension has now widened into a rupture.

The first public resignation from the task force came Sunday with an announcement from Mark Goldfeder, an Orthodox rabbi and the CEO of the National Jewish Advocacy Center, that he was quitting in protest of Roberts’s defense of Carlson.

David Bernstein, author of “Woke Antisemitism” and founder of the North American Values Institute
Lori Lowenthal Marcus, a lawyer with the Deborah Project

The Jewish Leadership Project, a conservative network co-founded by Charles Jacobs and Avi Goldwasser, said it is “evaluating our involvement” and will withdraw absent “a vigorous explanation that Judaism and Jews are inherently allies of Christians” and “a disconnect from Carlson immediately.”

The Coalition for Jewish Values, led by Rabbi Yaakov Menken, said it has already communicated its intent to resign if Roberts does not retract

Mort Klein, president of the Zionist Organization of America, echoed that warning:

And in a statement, Young Jewish Conservatives, another member group, said it was withdrawing its membership entirely.

The Israel Forever Foundation has also left Project Esther,
 
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Hans Blaster

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He's an American expatriate who lives in HUngary. American citizen, Orthodox convert. Not sure what branch Orthodox. Not a fan of Victor Orban myself. Dreher has written some good books about totalitarianism that I have read, " Live not by Lies."
I looked at his bibliography. I don't see anything in his writings about totalitarianism other than a support for illiberalism and soft totalitarianism. (Which is, presumably, why he lives in the illiberal, soft totalitarian state of Hungary.)
 
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zippy2006

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Well I thought I did, maybe I'm wrong. What do you think the connection is?
As I've said above, when someone takes a desirable outcome (baked cookies) and intentionally compares it to the burning of Jewish corpses, they are implying that the killing of Jews is a desirable outcome. The chosen analogy is not innocuous. It wasn't arrived at randomly.

But I am going to try to listen to the whole Tucker interview in order to have a better perspective on this whole phenomenon. Fuentes looks like someone who became embittered, cynical, and extreme after being blindsided by the political environment.
 
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Chesterton

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As I've said above, when someone takes a desirable outcome (baked cookies) and intentionally compares it to the burning of Jewish corpses, they are implying that the killing of Jews is a desirable outcome. The chosen analogy is not innocuous. It wasn't arrived at randomly.

But I am going to try to listen to the whole Tucker interview in order to have a better perspective on this whole phenomenon. Fuentes looks like someone who became embittered, cynical, and extreme after being blindsided by the political environment.
Would you mind if I copied and answered this post of yours in that thread in TAW? I fear my friends there may now think I'm a full blown Nazi for posting what I posted there. :)
 
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