What Book?

BobRyan said:

??

Things that pertain to Christ's incarnation from God the Son - to the "Son of man" - do not apply to non-God humans, born of procreation not incarnation.

So then there are zero OT specifically predicting the birth, time, life , ministry and death of BobRyan,

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I disagree based on what is actually written in Scriptures. God told Abram basically to "Deny himself, pick up his life's experiences and follow God". And Abraham left the religion of his fathers, his traditions, his judgments and being renewed in the spirit of his mind, he "Let this mind be in him, which was also in Christ Jesus:"

He "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", just like Jesus. He became obedient to God and was blessed, according to the Promises of God.

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Like Jesus did)

But is wasn't Abram, but the Spirit of Christ in Abram that enabled him to be called by God, "Faithful". Like David, Abram was called, and "SAW";

Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered. Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Who understood this better than Abraham?

Then said I, Lo, I come:

Gen. 12: 4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

"in the volume of the book it is written of me", I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. (Just like Jesus did)

This is precisely "specifically predicting the birth, time, life , ministry and death Life (Blood) of Christ", that was in Abraham, Noah, Moses, Caleb, David, Daniel, Shadrack, Abednego, Zacharias, Simeon Anna, Paul and Peter and Cornelius and "Every Example" of Faithful man in the entire bible. "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith "of Jesus".

As it is written about Caleb;

Numb. 14: 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, "because" he had another spirit with him, and "hath followed me fully", him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Caleb said in his heart, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

This is the whole duty of men, as it is also written.

Studyman said:

I disagree based on what is actually written in Scriptures. God told Abram basically to "Deny himself, pick up his life's experiences and follow God". And Abraham left the religion of his fathers, his traditions, his judgments and being renewed in the spirit of his mind, he "Let this mind be in him, which was also in Christ Jesus:"

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True.

But details in Christ's life were specifically identified in the OT as applying to none other than the Messiah. A single individual.

The same cannot be said of you and me.

Studyman said:

He "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", just like Jesus.

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It is unclear to me that Jesus needed to be born again.

John 3 He says unless a person is born again he cannot enter heaven. True of lost sinners, but Christ was the God man, and did not need to be born again. There was no corruption in Him. John 6 reminds us that He came from above. The Word became flesh" John 1.

Incarnation of a pre-existing eternal sinless being is not the same as mere procreation

Studyman said:

He became obedient to God and was blessed, according to the Promises of God.

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true

Studyman said:

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (Like Jesus did)

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True, Jesus obeyed and Abraham obeyed, but Abraham needed salvation, Jesus did not

Studyman said:

But is wasn't Abram, but the Spirit of Christ in Abram that enabled him to be called by God, "Faithful". Like David, Abram was called, and "SAW";

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true

Studyman said:

Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered. Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Who understood this better than Abraham?

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Daniel offers prayer to God in Dan 9 without priest or blood sacrifice. This happens other times in the OT as for example in the case of Jacob.

But it would take a lot more than that , to be the Word made flesh, the sinless Son of God on Earth

Studyman said:

Then said I, Lo, I come:

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True of Christ. Not true of Abraham

Studyman said:

Gen. 12: 4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

"in the volume of the book it is written of me", I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. (Just like Jesus did)

This is precisely "specifically predicting the birth, time, life , ministry and death Life (Blood) of Christ"

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true.

The prophecies distinctly pointing to Christ's role as Messiah and Savior do not claim all of us are the Savior of mankind

Studyman said:

, that was in Abraham, Noah, Moses, Caleb, David, Daniel, Shadrack, Abednego, Zacharias, Simeon Anna, Paul and Peter and Cornelius and "Every Example" of Faithful man in the entire bible.

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Those are all examples of sinners saved by grace.
Christ was never a sinner and never saved by grace.

Studyman said:

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith "of Jesus".

As it is written about Caleb;

Numb. 14: 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:

24 But my servant Caleb, "because" he had another spirit with him, and "hath followed me fully", him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

Caleb said in his heart, "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

This is the whole duty of men, as it is also written.

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It is written of Christ "yet without sin". That is not true of any other human as Paul reminds us in Rom 3

HIM said:

Right, But the BIBLE is OUR BASIC INSTRUCTION BEFORE LEAVING EARTH. The Law, His Word through His Spirit through Christ is part of us, who we are.

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agreed.

The New Covenant writes the Law of God on heart and mind

HIM said:

Why the "???"

What don't you get?

It is written.

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My question was about this

Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Ps 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Ps 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
Ps 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.

those statements in Heb 10 and Ps 40 uniquely apply to Christ, literally, individually , personally

So then we often go to non-believers show how the OT text specifically predict Jesus as Messiah, Savior of mankind etc.

If the unbeliever could say "those OT predictions are so generic you make them apply to anyone so then they actually prove nothing unique about the person of Jesus in the first century" , our whole case would be shot.

BobRyan said:

True.

But details in Christ's life were specifically identified in the OT as applying to none other than the Messiah. A single individual.

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That's just not true in my understanding. The Passover is representative of men who sinned, but repented and placed the "Life" (Blood) of the Messiah, in their minds (Lintel) and in their walks and deeds (2 door posts). When the Christ's Life was seen on these men, God's wrath passes over them. Isn't this the meaning of Passover, "to eat the Flesh and drink the Blood" of the ONE perfect human who offered Himself to God for us?

1 Cor. 10: 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

How can you say Abraham or Noah or Caleb didn't have the Spirit of Christ in them that prompted them to say in their heart, "Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies. 5 Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered. 6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.)

8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

I believe the Poster make a wonderful point about those whose refuge in the Lord, like David.

I don't want to argue, and will not address all your post, but would like to address just a few, and then respectfully disagree because I'm sure we are at an impasse.

BobRyan said:

It is unclear to me that Jesus needed to be born again.

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Well HE died a mortal human, but was raised an immortal Priest, "after the order of Melchizedek". That seems like being born again to me.

BobRyan said:

True of lost sinners, but Christ was the God man, and did not need to be born again.

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And yet HE was raised with a different Body than HE was born with.

BobRyan said:

true

True, Jesus obeyed and Abraham obeyed, but Abraham needed salvation, Jesus did not

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So what? Should Abraham then tell God, "You are lying to me regarding your promises because I have already sinned". or "The Spirit of Christ is powerless to cleanse me and teach me in the way that I should go because I have already sinned, and HE didn't?

So would you then have Abraham say, "leave me alone, I am forever without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" because I have already sinned?

Of course not Ryan, and I don't think you would say these things either.

Shouldn't we say instead;

4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

5 Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.

6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (Every Example of Faithful man in the Bible followed the Christ's Example of Yielding themselves to God in obedience. Every one of them)

8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

How is this not what EVERY man will say in his heart, whose ears have been opened concerning the Mercy and Lovingkindness God has shown us.

And it is not them or their will, but Christ in them by Faith.

It is true that David is being bold, and in my understanding, this is why the Hebrews author quoted him.

HIM said:

Read the whole psalm.
It is David speaking of himself, not knowing that some of it was in regard to Christ and himself.

The following isn't about Jesus,

Ps 40:12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.

The writer of Hebrews speaks of Jesus in verse 5. We know this because the writer uses the word He

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then the writer uses the word I like David did. Here as David he is saying that He came to do God's will as it is written in the volume of the Book of him. That Book being the Book of the Law.

Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Then the writer goes back to verse 5 in verse 8 and in doing so the writer goes back to referring to Jesus in regard to the same verse that he claimed for himself as David did. How do we know? Because the writer uses the word he again.

Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

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Did you mean to quote me? Seems like the combo was between you and BobRyan.