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Human reading bible does not equal God speaking

Strong in Him

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So when people quote certain passages and say women shouldn't be pastors and just won't let it go. Keep quoting 2 Tim 3:16 heresy heresy, ad nausium.

Does this ring any bells?
Yes, many.
But there is a big difference between quoting the Bible and quoting the Bible, in context and with understanding.

I'm not saying this to get at you/attack your position, but it's relevant to this thread, so I'll mention it.
One of the first things that I learned as a Methodist lay preacher (yes, a female one) is that exegesis is important. This means reading a passage, or verses, in context, asking what the author/speaker meant when they wrote/said them and what those around them at the time would have understood when they heard them. In the Gospels, Jesus was speaking mostly to Jews, for example, and before the resurrection. In the epistles, Paul, James, John etc were speaking to people from different cultures who were hearing the Gospel for the first time, AND also to those who were thinking "do I have to stop being a Jew? Do I still obey the law? What about circumcision etc?
Taking note of all this is not "explaining the Bible away", as someone here once wrote, but really trying to understand it.
So yes, Paul wrote that women should be silent in worship. Did he mean that literally? To discover that we need to look at his wider teachings - which include telling a woman HOW to pray and prophesy. Look at his teaching on the gifts of the Spirit - did he say that any of them were only for men? Those gifts include evangelist, teacher, pastor, Ephesians 4:11 and so on. Look at how he spoke about people speaking in tongues and prophesying during worship, 1 Corinthians 14. Did he say that it was only men who could do this? Did Paul only have make helpers, Romans 16?
How had Jesus treated women - had he allowed any to speak for him and share the Good News?
Because Paul was a Jew there is also the OT to consider; had God at any time allowed women to lead and/or prophesy and teach? What about Deborah, Miriam and Huldah? What about Esther, who, effectively, told the king what to do, saved the Jews from destruction and who is still celebrated each year in Purim?
Considering all this, how likely is it that Paul would have commanded all women everywhere to be silent and not worship or praise God? So what DID he mean?

This is a far more honest approach to Scripture than just saying "the Bible says women can't speak in church; just do it."
The Bible also says that Judas went and hanged himself - is suicide acceptable because it is "mentioned in the Bible"?

Sometimes Christians jump in and interpret, and apply, Scripture, when that is the work of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Yes, many.
But there is a big difference between quoting the Bible and quoting the Bible, in context and with understanding.

I'm not saying this to get at you/attack your position, but it's relevant to this thread, so I'll mention it.
One of the first things that I learned as a Methodist lay preacher (yes, a female one) is that exegesis is important. This means reading a passage, or verses, in context, asking what the author/speaker meant when they wrote/said them and what those around them at the time would have understood when they heard them. In the Gospels, Jesus was speaking mostly to Jews, for example, and before the resurrection. In the epistles, Paul, James, John etc were speaking to people from different cultures who were hearing the Gospel for the first time, AND also to those who were thinking "do I have to stop being a Jew? Do I still obey the law? What about circumcision etc?
Taking note of all this is not "explaining the Bible away", as someone here once wrote, but really trying to understand it.
So yes, Paul wrote that women should be silent in worship. Did he mean that literally? To discover that we need to look at his wider teachings - which include telling a woman HOW to pray and prophesy. Look at his teaching on the gifts of the Spirit - did he say that any of them were only for men? Those gifts include evangelist, teacher, pastor, Ephesians 4:11 and so on. Look at how he spoke about people speaking in tongues and prophesying during worship, 1 Corinthians 14. Did he say that it was only men who could do this? Did Paul only have make helpers, Romans 16?
How had Jesus treated women - had he allowed any to speak for him and share the Good News?
Because Paul was a Jew there is also the OT to consider; had God at any time allowed women to lead and/or prophesy and teach? What about Deborah, Miriam and Huldah? What about Esther, who, effectively, told the king what to do, saved the Jews from destruction and who is still celebrated each year in Purim?
Considering all this, how likely is it that Paul would have commanded all women everywhere to be silent and not worship or praise God? So what DID he mean?

This is a far more honest approach to Scripture than just saying "the Bible says women can't speak in church; just do it."
The Bible also says that Judas went and hanged himself - is suicide acceptable because it is "mentioned in the Bible"?

Sometimes Christians jump in and interpret, and apply, Scripture, when that is the work of the Holy Spirit.
You see, here we are having a respectable conversation around scripture. If this always happened, the idea of bibdolatry, and people putting themselves in the place of God wouldn't even come up.

There is scripture, yes. However, since we are not God, and the author is dead, a bit of humility is expected.
 
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Strong in Him

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You see, here we are having a respectable conversation around scripture. If this always happened, the idea of bibdolatry, and people putting themselves in the place of God wouldn't even come up.

There is scripture, yes. However, since we are not God, and the author is dead, a bit of humility is expected.
When I was a teenager/young adult I was adamant that every word of Scripture was true - so therefore it was literal. And as it was in the Bible - God's word to us - obviously it had to be obeyed by us.
But there are a number of things in Scripture that aren't for us - eg Jewish hygiene laws and Paul's instructions to someone to "bring my cloak and my scrolls when you come to see me."

There are still people, though, who say "if it's in the Bible WE have to do it."
 
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Gregory Thompson

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When I was a teenager/young adult I was adamant that every word of Scripture was true - so therefore it was literal. And as it was in the Bible - God's word to us - obviously it had to be obeyed by us.
But there are a number of things in Scripture that aren't for us - eg Jewish hygiene laws and Paul's instructions to someone to "bring my cloak and my scrolls when you come to see me."

There are still people, though, who say "if it's in the Bible WE have to do it."
Indeed, and there people who go one step beyond "taking it personally" and treat attitudes towards their theology as an affront to God.
 
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Dan Perez

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The devil read the Scripture out of context, we can also do that when we do not let God's Word interpret itself. Most of the Bible is very plain and the areas that are not, are usually found in the rest of Scripture.
And what do you say about this verse in. Gal 6: 15 says !!

For in Christ Jesus , neither CIRCUMCISION. is of any FORCE nor UNCIRCUMCION , but , a NEW CREATION. !!

AND you say it is very PLAIN. , , so how PLAIN is this verse ??

Am I in. the place of God. ??

What say you. ??

dan P
 
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RDKirk

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And what do you say about this verse in. Gal 6: 15 says !!

For in Christ Jesus , neither CIRCUMCISION. is of any FORCE nor UNCIRCUMCION , but , a NEW CREATION. !!

AND you say it is very PLAIN. , , so how PLAIN is this verse ??

Am I in. the place of God. ??

What say you. ??

dan P
It seems like this is a question bedoggling to civilians that to a military troop is no question at all.

I can stand as sergeant (which, btw, derives from the Latin "servant") and read to the troops the day's orders from the commander, and all the troops know reading the commander's commands does not make me the commander. It doesn't even put me "in place of the commander."

It's funny how civilians have such a hard time understanding that kind of relationship.

The centurion whose servant Jesus healed understood it, even though Jesus' own disciples did not.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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And what do you say about this verse in. Gal 6: 15 says !!

For in Christ Jesus , neither CIRCUMCISION. is of any FORCE nor UNCIRCUMCION , but , a NEW CREATION. !!

AND you say it is very PLAIN. , , so how PLAIN is this verse ??

Am I in. the place of God. ??

What say you. ??

dan P
It is plain, what is the issue with this verse? What does it mean to become a new creation in Christ? Would one be clinging to their old life of sin and worshipping others gods, or stealing from their neighbor, or would one die of self and be baptized with Christ turning a new path keeping God's commandments through love and faith. John14:15 Rom3:31 Rom 6:1-4
 
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