The Economist: Trump's approval rating crashes!

Servus · Monday at 10:37 PM

iluvatar5150 said:
The data comes from Pew's polling on what media outlets each side regularly consumes:

Americans are divided by party in the sources they turn to for political news

To a large degree, the pattern of partisan polarization that emerges in attitudes about the credibility of news sources is also evident in the sources

www.pewresearch.org

The theory might come from Richard Hanania's substack:

Liberals Read, Conservatives Watch TV

Explaining why Trump emerged on the right, why only liberals debate filibuster reform, how anti-vax became a partisan issue, how David Shor is half right, "Dems are the real racists" and much else.

www.richardhanania.com

Interestingly, and I didn't know this until right now because I'm unfamiliar with the rest of his work and wouldn't have guess it from skimming that piece, Hanania is very right-wing:

Richard Hanania - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Looks like anecdotal evidence of how a rumor got started.

iluvatar5150 said:
You're free to challenge the arrangement on that page by posting a list of outlets that lean conservative and do a bunch of fact reporting and/or fact-heavy analysis.

The chart is okay. The assessment of it was the usual leftist tale of superiority. Left-supremacism.

eclipsenow · Tuesday at 12:50 AM

I guess 7 million protestors for No Kings day is also a leftist tale of superiority? Left-supremacism?

iluvatar5150 · Tuesday at 9:07 AM

Servus said:
Looks like anecdotal evidence of how a rumor got started.

The chart is okay. The assessment of it was the usual leftist tale of superiority. Left-supremacism.

Is the assessment wrong? Being haughty doesn't mean it's incorrect. It doesn't take a lot of advanced statistical analysis to see that the distribution on the right side is skewed much more towards opinion and propaganda than the left side is. There's certainly enough money on the right to fund a lot of fact-based reporting and thoughtful analysis, but aside from think tanks, the bulk of what we get are hyperpartisan commentary and conspiracy theories. Why do you think that is? It seems to me that outlets are merely responding to what their respective audiences want.

According to the Pew survey, the Right's media diet is skewed more heavily towards partisan commentary sources, with Fox and their lineup of predominantly partisan commentary way in the lead and Hannity and Limbaugh coming in right behind CNN+the broadcast networks. On their side, Breitbart ranks as high as WaPo and just one point behind NYT.

If you don't like the left snootily pointing out that it reads more and produces and consumes higher-quality news media, I would posit that the real solution is not to complain about their snootiness, but to change your side's media habits: read more. Patronize higher-quality media outlets instead of the swill that gets posted here by many of our more conservative members.

NxNW · Tuesday at 9:11 AM

Servus said:
Outside of that, polls always only consist of an infinitesimal percentage of voters, and the results will always depend on which demographic is being polled.

The trick is to pick a representative sample, in which case you only need 30 participants.

MarkSB · Tuesday at 9:17 AM

Unfortunately, I'm convinced that no matter how bad the economy gets, his approval rating won't dip much below 40%. His supporters have been able to see it all now: unprecedented power grabs, pardoning a group of people who broke into the capital and tried to stop a confirmation, statement after statement not supported by facts... one could go on and on. If none of that has stopped them from supporting him by this point, I'm guessing that the economy tanking isn't going to stop them. He'll find someone else to blame it on or make up some reason why it happened, and they'll believe him. They've shown that is what they will continue to do.

The elections will likely be the tipping point. All these national guard deployments into major cities are an obvious dress rehearsal for the elections. I'm guessing the vast majority of his supporters won't object to election interference on that level, either. I hate to sound all "doom and gloom", but democracy in America is in a very dire state.

Servus · Tuesday at 9:57 AM

iluvatar5150 said:
Is the assessment wrong? Being haughty doesn't mean it's incorrect.

The assessment that liberals are intellectual scientific artists, and conservatives are deplorable troglodytes, is just as bad as any other supremacist claim.

iluvatar5150 said:
It doesn't take a lot of advanced statistical analysis to see that the distribution on the right side is skewed much more towards opinion and propaganda than the left side is. There's certainly enough money on the right to fund a lot of fact-based reporting and thoughtful analysis, but aside from think tanks, the bulk of what we get are hyperpartisan commentary and conspiracy theories. Why do you think that is? It seems to me that outlets are merely responding to what their respective audiences want.

According to the Pew survey, the Right's media diet is skewed more heavily towards partisan commentary sources, with Fox and their lineup of predominantly partisan commentary way in the lead and Hannity and Limbaugh coming in right behind CNN+the broadcast networks. On their side, Breitbart ranks as high as WaPo and just one point behind NYT.

If you don't like the left snootily pointing out that it reads more and produces and consumes higher-quality news media, I would posit that the real solution is not to complain about their snootiness, but to change your side's media habits: read more. Patronize higher-quality media outlets instead of the swill that gets posted here by many of our more conservative members.

And yet the left clearly issues a plethora of partisan propaganda and sensationalism.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 10:09 AM

MarkSB said:
Unfortunately, I'm convinced that no matter how bad the economy gets, his approval rating won't dip much below 40%. His supporters have been able to see it all now: unprecedented power grabs, pardoning a group of people who broke into the capital and tried to stop a confirmation, statement after statement not supported by facts... one could go on and on. If none of that has stopped them from supporting him by this point, I'm guessing that the economy tanking isn't going to stop them. He'll find someone else to blame it on or make up some reason why it happened, and they'll believe him. They've shown that is what they will continue to do.

The elections will likely be the tipping point. All these national guard deployments into major cities are an obvious dress rehearsal for the elections. I'm guessing the majority of them won't object to election interference on that level, either. I hate to sound all "doom and gloom", but democracy in America is in a very dire state.

Trump's mission is to destroy the Left, whatever it takes. If it takes crashing the economy then what we are faced with is a period of necessary austerity and sacrifice. We must gladly put up with it. Marxists call this "the dictatorship of the proletariat" but the same thing happens in authoritarian economic systems on the Right as well--as we are finding out.

Say it aint so · Tuesday at 12:55 PM

iluvatar5150 said:
That's because libs are more likely to read, while conservatives are more likely to watch tv. On top of that, conservatives are more likely to listen to hyperpartisan garbage. I like this chart because it shows the distribution of news and opinion outlets along a spectrum of straight reporting-partisan hyperbole. You can see that the left side is skewed way more towards straight reporting and fact-dense analysis at the top, whereas the right side is almost devoid of that, being clustered around opinion and what is essentially propaganda. Anything that deals in straight reporting is naturally going to have a larger audience among the left/center.

The Economist has a paywall. The Economist covers international news as well. And I am willing to bet dollars to donuts those on the left are more apt to consume international news and investigative journalism where paywalls is a means of sustenance; than they are on the right. I am sure there are studies or polls that bear this out. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts those living in red states are the least likely to own a passport. Yes, those who are quick to claim the US is the best country in the world has never left its shores. I kind of recall a Pew poll where the top two places the right gets their news is from FOXnews, yes that outlet who knowingly and willingly lies to you, followed second by....,wait for it....The Joe Rogan Podcast. I am atheist, but if there is a God. God help America.

iluvatar5150 · Tuesday at 1:25 PM

Servus said:
The assessment that liberals are intellectual scientific artists, and conservatives are deplorable troglodytes, is just as bad as any other supremacist claim.

I guess it's a good thing that that wasn't the assessment levied then, eh?

Servus said:
And yet the left clearly issues a plethora of partisan propaganda and sensationalism.

Nobody said they didn't. The difference isn't that one side engages in sensationalism and the other one doesn't. The difference is that one side engages in little else.

Servus · Tuesday at 1:51 PM

iluvatar5150 said:
I guess it's a good thing that that wasn't the assessment levied then, eh?

"That's because libs are more likely to read, while conservatives are more likely to watch tv" plays right along with it.

iluvatar5150 said:
Nobody said they didn't. The difference isn't that one side engages in sensationalism and the other one doesn't. The difference is that one side engages in little else.

I see and point out leftist hyperbole all the time. Nazi fascist dictator destroying democracy, going to end social security and medicare, we're all going to suffer horribly, keeping black people from voting, building a secret army of kidnappers, the world is coming to an end etc etc. Chicken Little to the max.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Tuesday at 2:08 PM

The only Trump supporters, that might be changing their tune, is farmers.

iluvatar5150 · Tuesday at 2:12 PM

Servus said:
"That's because libs are more likely to read, while conservatives are more likely to watch tv" plays right along with it.

It may. But the fact that A is consistent with B doesn't mean that A requires B.

Servus said:
I see and point out leftist hyperbole all the time. Nazi fascist dictator destroying democracy, going to end social security and medicare, we're all going to suffer horribly, keeping black people from voting, building a secret army of kidnappers, the world is coming to an end etc etc. Chicken Little to the max.

ok? I already acknowledged that the left engages in this. Again, the difference is not that one side does and one side doesn't - they both do. The difference is that the Right doesn't do much besides that.

Notice how sparse this section of the chart is relative to the same section on the left:

It looks even more unbalanced if you filter out the smaller outlets.

Servus · Tuesday at 2:26 PM

iluvatar5150 said:
It may. But the fact that A is consistent with B doesn't mean that A requires B.

ok? I already acknowledged that the left engages in this. Again, the difference is not that one side does and one side doesn't - they both do. The difference is that the Right doesn't do much besides that.

Notice how sparse this section of the chart is relative to the same section on the left:

View attachment 371894

It looks even more unbalanced if you filter out the smaller outlets.

How is that supposed to demonstrate that the right engages in little else other than sensationalism? It just shows the left has a clutter of media sources most likely trying to out do one another. Is the Wall Street Journal and Christianity Today supposedly known for sensationalism? Also Sky News being over on the left makes to sense whatsoever. One of their most popular segments is called "Lefties Losing It".

iluvatar5150 · Tuesday at 3:33 PM

Servus said:
How is that supposed to demonstrate that the right engages in little else other than sensationalism? It just shows the left has a clutter of media sources most likely trying to out do one another. Is the Wall Street Journal and Christianity Today supposedly known for sensationalism?

Did you read the whole graph when I linked to it earlier?

The horizontal axis is what you would think of with regards to left-right political orientation.

The vertical axis is the spectrum of facts-opinion, with pure fact reporting (e.g. AP, Reuters) at the very top and conspiratorial nonsense at the bottom. That the region I circled is so empty points to the fact that there are few outlets on the right doing traditional journalism or thoughtful, fact-based analysis. The whole right side of the graph is skewed lower.

Servus said:
Also Sky News being over on the left makes to sense whatsoever. One of their most popular segments is called "Lefties Losing It".

I don't know. They have Jimmy Dore over on the left, and he's pretty Trumpy.

Servus · Tuesday at 7:36 PM

iluvatar5150 said:
Did you read the whole graph when I linked to it earlier?

The horizontal axis is what you would think of with regards to left-right political orientation.

The vertical axis is the spectrum of facts-opinion, with pure fact reporting (e.g. AP, Reuters) at the very top and conspiratorial nonsense at the bottom. That the region I circled is so empty points to the fact that there are few outlets on the right doing traditional journalism or thoughtful, fact-based analysis. The whole right side of the graph is skewed lower.

I don't know. They have Jimmy Dore over on the left, and he's pretty Trumpy.

Years ago on another forum, someone who was far right posted Jimmy Dore clips all the time. That plus where they put Sky News makes the accuracy of that thing pretty questionable.

The Economist: Trump's approval rating crashes!

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