Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

Bro.T · Friday at 7:13 PM

Abraham1st said:
The work of God is to believe in who He sent, and He sent Jesus Christ for all the reasons He did in the gospel, the most reason of all is to show the love of God, in simplicity, so with Jesus you have freedom from law, you do as you are led, we see that in every example of Christ, we see the Pharisees as an opposing example, to find fault with just about everything Jesus did, but the fault was in them doing set ways, that were not from the love of God at all, mercy faith, etc.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So a greater law was in front of the Pharisees, as greater testimony is in front of those who do or promote the same old ways, again we saw no set law for Apostle Paul, we instead see the same Jews against Him with their law, but we see them overcome by the same freedom in Christ, and shown the highest example of what charity is, how it is greater than all other things, no matter how much knowledge a person may consider thy have, it is charity alone that edifies, and that is seen in the cross of Christ, in meekness, and temperance, the Pharisees have no law against these, yet they did not do them, it is Christ alone that did, and they that are His, have also crucified their flesh with all affections and lusts.

Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Paul says in (1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments.

(v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.

Bro.T · Friday at 7:13 PM

ARBITER01 said:
Your point has no relevance with my original post, and I'm not interested in arguing over it.

peace in Jesus name, ok

Bro.T · Friday at 7:16 PM

ARBITER01 said:
Well, I'll tell you what,..... I'm going to go with what Jesus actually said about what works we are to perform.

I think obeying Him is way more important.

Jesus said in (John 17:3-4) (v.3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (v.4) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. Yes Jesus did much work. He is the captain of our salvation and the captain is leading by his example, by his works.

Now Paul says in (Phil. 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Now if you need not work, then why is Paul telling you to “WORK” out your own salvation, and pay close attention because he also says with “fear and trembling”.

Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.

Mercy Shown · Friday at 11:09 PM

Bro.T said:
Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death, which is the lake of fire. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus being baptize, you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster.(Gal 3:24)

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

You are making several assumptions. The biggest is that you parse "the law" where the text does not. Other than your opinion, you have not given anyone reason to believe that Paul was only talking about part of the law. The second assumption is that what I present is antinomian. Just because we can't make ourselves righteous by interpreting God's law as something we can keep to earn salvation.

You feel you have to keep the law—but do you? Do you keep it perfectly? (James 2:10) Those who are under the grace of Christ desire to keep the law of God because they love Him (John 14:15). They love Him because He saved them and adopted them as His own, making them joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:16–17).

He did this by taking their sin upon Himself (2 Corinthians 5:21) and giving them His righteous record (Philippians 3:9). As this becomes more and more apparent, it humbles them until they are in complete submission to Christ and His righteousness (Romans 10:3–4).

They see the beauty of God’s perfect law, which is far above even the holiest human being (Psalm 19:7–9). It is only attainable through Jesus Christ as a gift (Romans 3:23–24; Ephesians 2:8–9).

The willful sinners are those who love darkness and have no desire to submit to Christ (John 3:19–20), whether in hedonistic flaunting of His law (Galatians 5:19–21) or in refusing to accept His gift of righteousness, insisting instead on establishing their own (Romans 9:31–32).

Abraham1st · Saturday at 8:42 AM

Bro.T said:
It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)

That is one chapter on sinning. Another would be being born again, which is one further than receiving the knowledge of the truth, but another is where all old is passed away and all is become new.

1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Abraham1st · Saturday at 8:52 AM

Bro.T said:
Paul says in (1Tim. 6:17-19) (v.17) Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not high-minded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; (v.18) That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; (v.19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. Riches and gains that is the doctrine of today, they are preaching the gospel of prosperity and not the gospel of the coming of the kingdom of God. But the Lord said to charge them that are rich in this world that they be not high-minded, but that they should be rich in good works that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

(v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God. (v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments.

(v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.

I think you are a little forgetful about who is called and chosen. ( regarding your quote to me about charging those who are rick in THIS WORLD) Law is finished, the poor are chosen but some are rich, and some treat the rich as if they are worthy when they are not..

Luke 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

James 3:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Going to James, do you think anyone will need to be told how to do works or they have no faith, and have to be made to believe in what Abraham did to do his steps. works, or they already walk in the steps of Abraham and his faith, as Romans 4 tells us..

Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Abraham1st · Saturday at 8:57 AM

Mercy Shown said:
You feel you have to keep the law—but do you? Do you keep it perfectly? (James 2:10) Those who are under the grace of Christ desire to keep the law of God because they love Him (John 14:15). They love Him because He saved them and adopted them as His own, making them joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:16–17).

He did this by taking their sin upon Himself (2 Corinthians 5:21) and giving them His righteous record (Philippians 3:9). As this becomes more and more apparent, it humbles them until they are in complete submission to Christ and His righteousness (Romans 10:3–4).

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in loving your neighbour as yourself, you dont need to learn this more and more to love yourself, now by belief you love them as yourself also, or no law or righteousness is fulfilled, including no law of faith, not believing that Christ rose from the dead, means no love of God to love our neighbour is shed into our hearts by the Holy Ghost given to us.

I wont give the verses, it looks like you know enough of verses.

Mercy Shown · 2025-10-05T08:36:17-0500

Abraham1st said:
There seems to be an omission of an important part in your summary. Noah is the heir of the righteousness, which is by faith, but there is a mystery involved, I will show it to all. Hebrews 11:7-8, is in the correct particular and linked order, because Noah has a covenant given to him and his seed after him, and that is to Abraham, who has the covenant with him and his seed after him.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

So here below in Genesis 9, is the covenant with the seed after Noah.

Genesis 9:8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
9 AND I, BEHOLD I ESTABLISH MY COVENANT WITH YOU, and WITH YOUR SEED AFTER YOU;
10 AND WITH EVERY LIVING CREATURE THAT IS WITH YOU, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
11 And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood TO DESTROY THE EARTH.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

Here in Genesis 17, is the covenant, and it is again, with his seed after him. The covenant would be established with Isaac, THIS IS THE CRUCIAL PART, OF IN ISAAC SHALL YOUR SEED BE CALLED. ow the covenant is with Jacob, so the seed after them.

Genesis 17:19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and WITH HIS SEED AFTER HIM.

Genesis 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Genesis 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for IN ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED.

Genesis 35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and TO THY SEED AFTER THEE will I give the land.

So who is that seed after Noah first of all, ( not heir of the righteousness which is by faith for nothing, but because of the covenant that said, with his seed after him) So it is the children of promise, as God gave promise to Abraham, of having his son Isaac with Sarah, and in Isaac the seed is called. One of Abrahams two sins was born after the flesh and not by promise, and that one persecutes the other. Then that one is cast out to not be heir with the free. The seed starting with Noah was Christ.

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Noah also had another testimony, of being the heir of the righteousness which is by faith, to be saved by water. Baptism also now saves us, saved by water again, and even by that heir of the righteousness, ( the son of the one born after the flesh shall not be heir) which is by faith, and the covenant with the seed after him ( which seed is Christ.) all is the answer of a good conscience toward God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

So the part omitted, is what part Noah and Abraham are, not just people who believed in God/were given God's grace, but of the covenant God made/promises given and fulfilled in Christ...

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

After studying your post. This is what I understand it to be saying. Let me know if I missed your point. Thanks

Hebrews 11 and “heir of righteousness”
- Noah is called “heir of the righteousness which is by faith” (Heb. 11:7).
- Abraham, immediately following (v. 8), is shown as receiving the covenant promise of an inheritance.
- The poster argues these are deliberately linked, not randomly arranged.
The Noahic Covenant
- In Genesis 9, God establishes His covenant not just with Noah but also with “his seed after him.”
- This “seed” is crucial — it anticipates a covenantal line beyond Noah himself.
The Abrahamic Covenant
- In Genesis 17, God narrows the covenant: the covenant is not with all of Abraham’s descendants, but specifically through Isaac.
- “In Isaac shall your seed be called” (Gen. 21:12) establishes election — the covenant will flow through promise, not flesh.
The Seed Defined
- Paul in Romans 9 and Galatians 3 interprets this: the true “seed” is not all of Abraham’s physical children, but Christ Himself (Gal. 3:16).
- Believers in Christ become “children of promise” like Isaac, not “children of the flesh” like Ishmael.
Theological Link Between Noah → Abraham → Christ
- Noah was heir of righteousness by faith because he foreshadowed the covenant line.
- Abraham received the covenant promise with his seed after him, culminating in Christ.
- The covenant promise, carried from Noah to Abraham to Isaac to Jacob, ultimately points to Jesus as the fulfillment.
Baptism Typology
- Noah’s salvation “through water” (1 Pet. 3:20–21) becomes a type of baptism, which is now fulfilled in Christ’s resurrection.
- Just as Noah was saved by water through faith, Christians are saved through baptism — not as a ritual cleansing, but as participation in Christ’s death and resurrection.
Omitted Part in Summaries
- Many summaries treat Noah and Abraham merely as individuals who had faith.
- The poster insists the key is their place in the covenantal unfolding of God’s promises, which are confirmed and fulfilled in Christ (Rom. 15:8).

In short: Noah and Abraham are not merely examples of faith in Hebrews 11, but covenantal figures whose “seed after them” points directly to Christ, the true heir of righteousness. The “mystery” is that this covenantal seed — preserved through Noah, narrowed through Abraham/Isaac/Jacob, and fulfilled in Christ — is the key to understanding both Hebrews 11 and the broader plan of salvation.

Mercy Shown · 2025-10-05T08:42:47-0500

Abraham1st said:
Adams offence was brought to all, otherwise why did all men sin, they all sinned because sin was in the world, which came by God giving commandment and by man disobeying it. The wages of sin/disobedience/transgression, are death. The disobedience came by the serpents beguiling, that it was a good idea to do what God had forbidden, and that they would not die for it. Not only they did die for it, but also all died for the same lack of obedience to God. But Go gave a way out, and Abraham received the promises, and the promise of the Spirit ( with which we can obey God) came, and eventually the promise was fulfilled with the faaith of Christ, but took HIs life, body and blood to redeem us back to God, which was acceptable to God and we are to present our lives and bodies as sacrifice to God also, which ios our reasonable service.

It is not that we must in the sense of obligation. If giving ourselves to God is not our highest desire and greatest pleasure, then it counts for nothing. God loves a cheerful giver.

Bro.T · 2025-10-05T20:20:09-0500

Abraham1st said:
I think you are a little forgetful about who is called and chosen. ( regarding your quote to me about charging those who are rick in THIS WORLD) Law is finished, the poor are chosen but some are rich, and some treat the rich as if they are worthy when they are not..

According to what you just said and what the Bible says about who is chosen, let's see what the Lord says....."Hear this word that the Lord hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, you only have I known of all the families of the earth: Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities." (Amos 3:1-2)

For what purpose did the Lord choose the children of Israel? (Exodus 19: 1-6) Let's look at the 5th & 6th vs.; "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (6th vs.) and ye shall be unto me a Kingdom of Priest, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Take a look at what Peter was telling the Jews, quoting Moses in 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

What is the covenant that the Lord made with his people? (Deuteronomy 29: 10-15) "Ye stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel, (11th vs.) your little ones, your wives and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water: (12th vs.) That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God, and into his oath, which the Lord thy God maketh with thee this day: (13th vs.) That he may establish thee this day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. (14th verse) Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; (15th vs.) but with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God, and also with him that is not with us this day:

What is the law that the people of God are to observe? (Exodus 20: 1-23) The Ten Commandments, God descended from heaven and spoke his commandments face to face with his people.

Is this law for the children of Israel only? No. (Leviticus 24: 22) "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: For I am the Lord your God."

How can one who is not of the lineage of Israel, become partakers of the covenant of God? (Ephesians 2:11-22) Let's look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Abraham1st said:
Luke 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.

Luke 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

2 Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.

James 3:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Going to James, do you think anyone will need to be told how to do works or they have no faith, and have to be made to believe in what Abraham did to do his steps. works, or they already walk in the steps of Abraham and his faith, as Romans 4 tells us..

Romans 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

I agree with all those verses but everything have to be put in it's context or proper place.

Bro.T · 2025-10-05T20:24:55-0500

Abraham1st said:
That is one chapter on sinning. Another would be being born again, which is one further than receiving the knowledge of the truth, but another is where all old is passed away and all is become new.

1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

One must understand that born again is a change in the body not the mind. Now Paul says in Romans 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Let’s jump right in a conversation that Jesus was having with a man name Nicodemus. John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Notice verse 3, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. We have just learned something here. If you are not born again you can not see the kingdom of God. As we go further you will understand this. Remember there is a time for everything.

Nicodemus asked a very good question. Take a look at the next set of verses.

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In verse 5, born of the water in this case is the Word of God. Notice the Lord mentions the kingdom of God again, but He adds a little more information. He says "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. When he mentions spirit He means exactly that. Watch how the Lord gives something physical to describe exactly what He means.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice: He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit? Angels where born spirit being, man and beast are born flesh and blood. There will be no flesh in the Father Kingdom, only spirit beings, so everyone must be born again. Only Jesus in his thousand year reign will have both, which includes the first resurrection.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice: He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice: what Jesus does in these next few verses.

Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Note two very important things within these verses. 1. Jesus appeared in the midst of them and the doors were shut. 2. Thomas called Him God. When Jesus came out of the grave he was born into the God family, Jesus was Born Again.

Bro.T · 2025-10-05T20:30:54-0500

Mercy Shown said:
You are making several assumptions. The biggest is that you parse "the law" where the text does not. Other than your opinion, you have not given anyone reason to believe that Paul was only talking about part of the law. The second assumption is that what I present is antinomian. Just because we can't make ourselves righteous by interpreting God's law as something we can keep to earn salvation.

You feel you have to keep the law—but do you? Do you keep it perfectly? (James 2:10) Those who are under the grace of Christ desire to keep the law of God because they love Him (John 14:15). They love Him because He saved them and adopted them as His own, making them joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:16–17).

He did this by taking their sin upon Himself (2 Corinthians 5:21) and giving them His righteous record (Philippians 3:9). As this becomes more and more apparent, it humbles them until they are in complete submission to Christ and His righteousness (Romans 10:3–4).

They see the beauty of God’s perfect law, which is far above even the holiest human being (Psalm 19:7–9). It is only attainable through Jesus Christ as a gift (Romans 3:23–24; Ephesians 2:8–9).

The willful sinners are those who love darkness and have no desire to submit to Christ (John 3:19–20), whether in hedonistic flaunting of His law (Galatians 5:19–21) or in refusing to accept His gift of righteousness, insisting instead on establishing their own (Romans 9:31–32).

I agree with all those verses but those verses doesn't over rule keeping the Commandments, Statues and Judgement of God. Paul says in Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. You wouldn’t know what sin was if there was no law.

Paul concerning the unchangeable Royal Law of God. (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17)

This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways. The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: And in keeping of them there is great reward. (Psalm 19: 7-11)

So if you say that you know God, but you don’t keep his commandments, lets see what the Lord had specially written for you.

(1John 2:3-4) (v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) he that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Rightly dividing the truth starts from Genesis to Revelation.

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Why we Christians still have to struggle with sins?

Bro.T

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Mercy Shown

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Abraham1st

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Mercy Shown

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Bro.T

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