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eclipsenow

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It is not limited deportation of the worst. Many, as well have taken advantage of the self deport offer. If they do not take this offer their deportation when they find them will be much more difficult FOR THEM. There is clarity that it is not just limited to the worst.
Not from Trump's rhetoric! These people are all the worst of the worst, barely human, poisoning the blood, eating the dogs, rapists and drug dealers and murderers.
 
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mark46

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It is not limited deportation of the worst. Many, as well have taken advantage of the self deport offer. If they do not take this offer their deportation when they find them will be much more difficult FOR THEM. There is clarity that it is not just limited to the worst.
I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.

That being said, Trump (and most voters) want to deport the vast majority of those who came in illegally under Biden whether they have criminal records or not.

Democrats should agree, well only if they want Democrats elected.

Those who have been here for many years and have worked for many years are a different situation entirely, Dreamers and others.
 
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ralliann

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I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.

That being said, Trump (and most voters) want to deport the vast majority of those who came in illegally under Biden whether they have criminal records or not.

Democrats should agree, well only if they want Democrats elected.

Those who have been here for many years and have worked for many years are a different situation entirely, Dreamers and others.
Yep. They have had an app for self deportation, in a very nice way, from the start. And warn illegals about not taking advantage of it. But some want to pretend only the worst were to be deported. No, it is all illegals. The focus however have been on the worst criminals of course, and let self deportees, do so. And millions have done so. They do not need to GO AFTER many of these, they come to them.
 
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eclipsenow

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I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.

That being said, Trump (and most voters) want to deport the vast majority of those who came in illegally under Biden whether they have criminal records or not.

Democrats should agree, well only if they want Democrats elected.

Those who have been here for many years and have worked for many years are a different situation entirely, Dreamers and others.
Or the Democrats should just tell the American people the truth.

Peer-reviewed social scientists have shown that these refugees are:-
* much more LAW ABIDING than American born citizens!

"Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."

In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!

* MORE willing to do the jobs no one else will - and end up contributing vastly MORE economic value than they might take in any welfare assistance programs!
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia
 
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ralliann

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Or the Democrats should just tell the American people the truth.

Peer-reviewed social scientists have shown that these refugees are:-
* much more LAW ABIDING than American born citizens!

"Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."​

In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!

* MORE willing to do the jobs no one else will - and end up contributing vastly MORE economic value than they might take in any welfare assistance programs!
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia
What has this to do with anything? Nothing!
 
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eclipsenow

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What has this to do with anything? Nothing!

Sorry - maybe it was my tone? I'm on the Democrats side on many things - and if I were American would vote Democrat.

I understand you were pointing out that because of the American electorate being so hypnotised by Trump's demagoguery that they want easy answers and easier targets! America's economic woes and inflation are not due to huge historic forces, economic development through the industrial phase into the modern services phase, and even the war in Ukraine and a 1 in 100 year pandemic and global energy crisis! No! It's all those Immigrants who are 'eating the dogs' and 'poisoning the blood'.

So I hear you! It's a tough time to be a Democrat.

But seriously - Trump complaining about immigrants is like complaining about a river of gold flowing into the USA.

And being a white man in Australia, I'm acutely aware that - just like in America - unless someone can trace their family line back 10,000 years we're ALL immigrants!
 
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rjs330

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In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!
I dont think thats true. Becauae we dont actually keep track across America who is illegal and who is not when they are arrested. There are states who have laws against it. Also we know that many illegals wont report crime because they are illegal. I know that is used all the time, but it cannot be used as it is not good research.

Secondly, even IF it is true, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are STILL illegal and arw breaking the law by being here and should be deported. If not, then the immigration laws are meaningless.
 
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I dont think thats true. Becauae we dont actually keep track across America who is illegal and who is not when they are arrested. There are states who have laws against it. Also we know that many illegals wont report crime because they are illegal. I know that is used all the time, but it cannot be used as it is not good research.

Secondly, even IF it is true, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are STILL illegal and arw breaking the law by being here and should be deported. If not, then the immigration laws are meaningless.
By-and-large, the immigration laws are meaningless: if something has ceased to function correctly, you change it.
The last time we had serious immigration reform was nearly 40 years ago.
Certain sectors of our economy benefit from having migrant workers, make it simple, easy and cheap for them to be here.
There, problem solved.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I don't know why folks would think that the majority of those detained would have criminal records. After all, even if all we deported only those with criminal records, there needs to be a place where they are detained while that status is checked.
The claim when Trump took office was that he would prioritize the "worst of the worst" and get rapists, murderers, and other violent criminals out of the country. People with those sorts of convictions are in databases - they're on probation or sex offender registries, they have known addresses and associates that agents could investigate in order to determine their whereabouts, etc. The idea that the government needs to round everyone up and then check them out is silly, and I don't think anyone interpreted Trump's word like that.
 
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BCP1928

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Or the Democrats should just tell the American people the truth.

Peer-reviewed social scientists have shown that these refugees are:-
* much more LAW ABIDING than American born citizens!

"Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes."​

In other words, illegal immigrants do under 50% the violent crime and under 25% the theft of Americans!

* MORE willing to do the jobs no one else will - and end up contributing vastly MORE economic value than they might take in any welfare assistance programs!
Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia
Yes, but they still have committed the most heinous crime imaginable: crossing the border without the right paperwork. Biden's crime was letting them believe they were here legally because they were seeking asylum. But they are evil criminals and they belong in detention camps to keep them from further contaminating the purity of our cultural institutions--and eating pets.
 
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rjs330

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By-and-large, the immigration laws are meaningless: if something has ceased to function correctly, you change it.
The last time we had serious immigration reform was nearly 40 years ago.
Certain sectors of our economy benefit from having migrant workers, make it simple, easy and cheap for them to be here.
There, problem solved.
Until they are changed or ruled unconstitutional the law stands. The law says illegals will be deported. And it should be enforced.

Point fingers at Congress all you want on this issue, I support that. Both sides of congress have totally failed.
 
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rjs330

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The claim when Trump took office was that he would prioritize the "worst of the worst" and get rapists, murderers, and other violent criminals out of the country. People with those sorts of convictions are in databases - they're on probation or sex offender registries, they have known addresses and associates that agents could investigate in order to determine their whereabouts, etc. The idea that the government needs to round everyone up and then check them out is silly, and I don't think anyone interpreted Trump's word like that.
He is prioritizing them. They have gotten a lot of them off the street. Prioritize doesn't mean hes going to ignore all the others. We ALL knew he was going after all of them. The evidence of that is all your side's complaining about how it wasn't posdible to deport all the illegals.

Your post is just a continuation of tge original complaint.
 
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eclipsenow

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I dont think thats true. Becauae we dont actually keep track across America who is illegal and who is not when they are arrested. There are states who have laws against it. Also we know that many illegals wont report crime because they are illegal. I know that is used all the time, but it cannot be used as it is not good research.

Secondly, even IF it is true, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are STILL illegal and arw breaking the law by being here and should be deported. If not, then the immigration laws are meaningless.

Actual studies show “illegals” commit less crime​

From 2019:​

"most studies have shown that illegal immigrants tend to commit less crime than the native born"
Gonzalez, Benjamin; Collingwood, Loren; El-Khatib, Stephen Omar (2019). "The Politics of Refuge: Sanctuary Cities, Crime, and Undocumented Immigration". Urban Affairs Review. 55: 107808741770497. doi:10.1177/1078087417704974. S2CID 32604699.

From 2020:​

We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as “undocumented” at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime.
Light, Michael T.; He, Jingying; Robey, Jason P. (December 2, 2020). "Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 117 (51): 32340–32347. Bibcode:2020PNAS..11732340L. doi:10.1073/pnas.2014704117. PMC 7768760. PMID 33288713.
Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas - PMC

From 2024​

"A range of studies by academics and think tanks have shown that immigrants do not commit crime at a higher rate than native-born Americans. A more limited universe of studies specifically examine criminality among immigrants in the US illegally but also find that they do not commit crimes at a higher rate."
Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica; Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica (July 16, 2024). "Trump says migrants are fueling violent crime. Here is what the research shows". Reuters. Retrieved July 28, 2024.
 
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rjs330

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Actual studies show “illegals” commit less crime​

From 2019:​

"most studies have shown that illegal immigrants tend to commit less crime than the native born"
Gonzalez, Benjamin; Collingwood, Loren; El-Khatib, Stephen Omar (2019). "The Politics of Refuge: Sanctuary Cities, Crime, and Undocumented Immigration". Urban Affairs Review. 55: 107808741770497. doi:10.1177/1078087417704974. S2CID 32604699.

From 2020:​

We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as “undocumented” at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime.
Light, Michael T.; He, Jingying; Robey, Jason P. (December 2, 2020). "Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 117 (51): 32340–32347. Bibcode:2020PNAS..11732340L. doi:10.1073/pnas.2014704117. PMC 7768760. PMID 33288713.
Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas - PMC

From 2024​

"A range of studies by academics and think tanks have shown that immigrants do not commit crime at a higher rate than native-born Americans. A more limited universe of studies specifically examine criminality among immigrants in the US illegally but also find that they do not commit crimes at a higher rate."
Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica; Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica (July 16, 2024). "Trump says migrants are fueling violent crime. Here is what the research shows". Reuters. Retrieved July 28, 2024.
Ive already told you the studies are bogus and Ive told you why.

I wouldn't say that illegals create more crime. I would say every illegal is a criminal. Which can't be of the native born.
 
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HARK!

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Certain sectors of our economy benefit from having migrant workers
...and certain legitimate businesses go out of business; when they have to compete with illegal competitors, who pay even more illegals low ball wages, under the table.
 
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eclipsenow

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Ive already told you the studies are bogus and Ive told you why.
Your attempts at brushing aside these studies are humorous exercises in magic hand waving words.
I'm sad that you seem to believe them.
You have not even looked at the studies to see how they gathered their data - and whose data is being analysed
I wouldn't say that illegals create more crime.
They don't - they work had, generated GDP for America, and generate LESS crime than American born citizens.


I would say every illegal is a criminal. Which can't be of the native born.
Incorrect again. The USA ratified the UN protocol on refugees and is bound under international law to process them with all due diligence to determine their claim for asylum. Anyone with half a teaspoon of compassion should watch some of the documentaries about people feeing Central America after their coffee crops failed and they could not pay 'protection' money to the local mafia. Their teenage daughters are being captured and sold into the sex trade - and then Donald Trump accuses the families fleeing these situations of being rapists and terrorists and scum and 'poisoning the blood'. All they want is their daughters back. All they want is to mourn what they have lost, work hard, be safe, and protect their remaining children. Then masked men turn up and grab them and split apart their families in some cases! And the Christian right celebrate this atrocity?

You simply cannot call them illegal until they have been properly and fairly processed. I do not think that's going to happen under Donald Trump's privatised ICE-army system where the financial incentive is to grab and nab people and keep them behind bars.

The international legal position on this matter is clear. The US must permit entry and afford refuge to anyone it has recognised as a refugee or to whom it has granted asylum. Moreover, it cannot return any person to a country where she or he may suffer torture or other persecution. No ifs, no buts, no qualifications on national security.​
Merkel will have reminded Trump that the United States is a party to the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. This prescribed the continuing application of the 1951 Convention relating to the status of refugees which was adopted to address the aftermath of World War II. That original convention was agreed in Geneva so it is sometimes referred to as the Geneva Convention.​
As the US voluntarily accepted the 1967 protocol to the refugee convention, it is legally obliged to implement it. Despite Trump’s personal complaints about these “rules”, all other states party to the protocol and convention can legitimately expect the US to comply – hence the expressions of dismay from other heads of state as Trump announced his executive order...​
..."Owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it."​
States can recognise that refugee status either when the person presents themselves to the state seeking sanctuary (such as at an embassy, airport or port) or when the person enters a state illegally then seeks sanctuary. The US has a longstanding system of recognising refugees before they travel to the country (such as in refugee camps) through the US Refugee Admission Programme. Once in the country, refugees can be expelled on grounds of national security but they should be allowed to seek refuge elsewhere before being deported.​

 
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rjs330

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Your attempts at brushing aside these studies are humorous exercises in magic hand waving words.
I'm sad that you seem to believe them.
You have not even looked at the studies to see how they gathered their data - and whose data is being analysed
Actually I have. And I told you why the studies are not reliable. Just like all the transgender studies that were touted by transactivists were bogus. Just cause there is a study that says one thing doesn't mean there arent fatal flaws in it. The research in the immigration study has big flaws. The biggest being what I said.
They don't - they work had, generated GDP for America, and generate LESS crime than American born citizens.

They work illegally and drive down wages by working for less. There is no reliable evidence they generate less crime.
Incorrect again. The USA ratified the UN protocol on refugees and is bound under international law to process them with all due diligence to determine their claim for asylum. Anyone with half a teaspoon of compassion should watch some of the documentaries
If tgey meet the criteria I have no problem with keeping them here. However the VAST majority of them do not meet the criteria. They lied to get in. Just because some of these folks have legitimate claims doesn't mean all if them do. Thats your mistake. Having your emotions manipulated by by stories to the point you seem to think they all deserve to get in. The fact is the vast majority don't. Those that do, I'm happy to help.
The international legal position on this matter is clear. The US must permit entry and afford refuge to anyone it has recognised as a refugee or to whom it has granted asylum. Moreover, it cannot return any person to a country where she or he may suffer torture or other persecution. No ifs, no buts, no qualifications on national security.
Not every single person who crosses the border illegally claims refugee status. They have no right to be here. They should be deported.
Merkel will have reminded Trump that the United States is a party to the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees. This prescribed the continuing application of the 1951 Convention relating to the status of refugees which was adopted to address the aftermath of World War II. That original convention was agreed in Geneva so it is sometimes referred to as the Geneva Convention.
I would like to see this agreement revoked. WWII ended a ling time ago. It was a different time. Now any Tom, Dick, or Harry can claim asylum and they have to be let in and go through the system. Taking advantage of it even though they good and well know they dont meet the criteria. They just lie to get in knowing they will be here for years. Have children born here and then have people who's emotions can be manipulated, like you, call for them to stay. You are being manipulated.

I won't be. Someone who actually meets the criteria I'm happy to help. But we shouldnt be patsies for the rest.
 
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ralliann

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I dont think thats true. Becauae we dont actually keep track across America who is illegal and who is not when they are arrested. There are states who have laws against it. Also we know that many illegals wont report crime because they are illegal. I know that is used all the time, but it cannot be used as it is not good research.

Secondly, even IF it is true, that has NOTHING to do with the fact that they are STILL illegal and arw breaking the law by being here and should be deported. If not, then the immigration laws are meaningless.
And we know, they release Antifa, BLM, and illegal immigrant criminals back out on the streets. The stats are fake. I was just listening to a reporter who was attacked by Atifa in Portland. She was covering Antifa's attacks on ICE at at one of their facilities there. The police were right there and did not respond. Stats are a joke.
 
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ralliann

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Actual studies show “illegals” commit less crime​

From 2019:​

"most studies have shown that illegal immigrants tend to commit less crime than the native born"
Gonzalez, Benjamin; Collingwood, Loren; El-Khatib, Stephen Omar (2019). "The Politics of Refuge: Sanctuary Cities, Crime, and Undocumented Immigration". Urban Affairs Review. 55: 107808741770497. doi:10.1177/1078087417704974. S2CID 32604699.

From 2020:​

We make use of uniquely comprehensive arrest data from the Texas Department of Public Safety to compare the criminality of undocumented immigrants to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens between 2012 and 2018. We find that undocumented immigrants have substantially lower crime rates than native-born citizens and legal immigrants across a range of felony offenses. Relative to undocumented immigrants, US-born citizens are over 2 times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes, 2.5 times more likely to be arrested for drug crimes, and over 4 times more likely to be arrested for property crimes. In addition, the proportion of arrests involving undocumented immigrants in Texas was relatively stable or decreasing over this period. The differences between US-born citizens and undocumented immigrants are robust to using alternative estimates of the broader undocumented population, alternate classifications of those counted as “undocumented” at arrest and substituting misdemeanors or convictions as measures of crime.
Light, Michael T.; He, Jingying; Robey, Jason P. (December 2, 2020). "Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 117 (51): 32340–32347. Bibcode:2020PNAS..11732340L. doi:10.1073/pnas.2014704117. PMC 7768760. PMID 33288713.
Comparing crime rates between undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and native-born US citizens in Texas - PMC

From 2024​

"A range of studies by academics and think tanks have shown that immigrants do not commit crime at a higher rate than native-born Americans. A more limited universe of studies specifically examine criminality among immigrants in the US illegally but also find that they do not commit crimes at a higher rate."
Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica; Hesson, Ted; Rosenberg, Mica (July 16, 2024). "Trump says migrants are fueling violent crime. Here is what the research shows". Reuters. Retrieved July 28, 2024.
The Police in sanctuary cities are told to stand down. The liberal officials have been doing this for years now. They do it so persons can come onto social media and make your kind of arguments. Your studies are fake. The way to fix this is to vote them out and put officials in that will do their job.
 
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Pommer

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The Police in sanctuary cities are told to stand down. The liberal officials have been doing this for years now. They do it so persons can come onto social media and make your kind of arguments. Your studies are fake. The way to fix this is to vote them out and put officials in that will do their job.
Dismissing evidence (studies) with an assertion “Your studies are fake”, should ought to be backed up with more than the assertion itself.
 
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