Political Pawns

Vambram said:

You are the one who denies reality.

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Well you put forward a convincing case that by pointing it out without examples!

Vambram said:

You are the one who denies reality.

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What's the reality here?

The FBI having undercover agents at an event where militia groups were plotting, training, then ransacked the capital in military stack formations while carrying zip ties for cuffing people. All while they stashed a cache of weapons at a hotel if and when needed. Who were their intended cuffees? To have any FBI agents sent there coming to the conclusion it was all political just tells the mental shallow mindedness of those agents.

Say it aint so said:

What's the reality here?

The FBI having undercover agents at an event where militia groups were plotting, training, then ransacked the capital in military stack formations while carrying zip times for cuffing people. All while they stashed a cache of weapons at a hotel if and when needed. Who were their intended cuffees? To have any FBI agents sent there coming to the conclusion it was all political just tells the mental shallow mindedness of those agents.

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I think the reality is that the FBI was undergoing significant internal turmoil to the extent that they could understand something significant and possibly violent could happen and convey the need to be there without knowing exactly what they were going to do with whatever they found happening.

I've seen the same kind of thing happen in the military. The tactical leadership knows, "We should be there and be ready to act," and has the authority to direct tactical forces to that point. But "What are we going to do if the fit hits the Shan?" requires guidance from higher leadership...which doesn't come.

The article cherry-picks comments that fit the author's bias. On the whole, there are a mix of sentiments expressed. Some, as in the article, express frustration with a perceived bias against the J6 rioters. Some express frustration about the lack of response to J6 (as compared to the BLM protests). And most of them highlight failures in communication.

Say it aint so said:

They were going hang Mike Pence if they found him.
They were ransacking the capital.
I hope to Hades there were undercover agents there.

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Yet it was the FBI who had to build that faux gallow.

When the FBI has to go to that much trouble to try and pop something off it's almost like nothing would have happened if not for the FBI.

And no, people cannot just walk up on Capitol Hill and start building gallows without being arrested - any day of the week let alone during hotly contested election results, which would be considered a heightened threat environment in the first place.

Our government doesn't play games, they arrest people for that stuff - unless that stuff is what they sanctioned.

Hazelelponi said:

Yet it was the FBI who had to build that faux gallow.

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They did not.

Hazelelponi said:

When the FBI has to go to that much trouble to try and pop something off it's almost like nothing would have happened if not for the FBI.

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Conspiracy Theories forum is thataway ->

Hazelelponi said:

And no, people cannot just walk up on Capitol Hill and start building gallows without being arrested - any day of the week let alone during hotly contested election results, which would be considered a heightened threat environment in the first place.

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Why not? Lots of things can happen in the midst of a protest crowd - it's not like screwing together a few 2x4s takes significant time.

Hazelelponi said:

Our government doesn't play games, they arrest people for that stuff - unless that stuff is what they sanctioned.

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Maybe under the new Trump regime this is true, but previous Presidents have respected the first amendment.

RocksInMyHead said:

Conspiracy Theories forum is thataway ->

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Can't escape reality and we live in a world all my conspiracy theories came true.

Because you can't escape reality. And reality already knows there is no citizen that can build a gallows on Capitol Hill without arrest prior to the completion of said project without said governments prior approval.

Hazelelponi said:

Can't escape reality and we live in a world all my conspiracy theories came true.

Because you can't escape reality. And reality already knows there is no citizen that can build a gallows on Capitol Hill without arrest prior to the completion of said project without said governments prior approval.

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They can, given enough general confusion.

If an FBI agent were in the crowd undercover without clear guidance, there would certainly be a question of "Is this a moment that I pull my gun and try to cow the mob?"

Hazelelponi said:

Yet it was the FBI who had to build that faux gallow.

When the FBI has to go to that much trouble to try and pop something off it's almost like nothing would have happened if not for the FBI.

And no, people cannot just walk up on Capitol Hill and start building gallows without being arrested - any day of the week let alone during hotly contested election results, which would be considered a heightened threat environment in the first place.

Our government doesn't play games, they arrest people for that stuff - unless that stuff is what they sanctioned.

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Let's accept what you're saying: the FBI was corrupt in 2021 and politically biassed.

Do you remember who was in charge of the government on January 6, 2021?

When President Trump was in office, his administration oversaw all departments of the government. His appointed Attorney General led the DOJ, his chosen FBI Director headed the FBI, and his selected appointee was in charge of the Pentagon. As such, responsibility for outcomes rested with the administration, reflecting the sentiment expressed by Harry Truman: “the buck stops here.” If official malpractice occurred in the FBI, responsibility would lie solely with the administration.

FBI's Patel clarifies role of hundreds of agents on Jan 6​

Current FBI Director Kash Patel said the agents were sent to the US Capitol for 'crowd control' after it had been declared a riot​

There’s no indication any FBI agents were involved in any events related to Trump’s speech on the morning of Jan. 6 at the Ellipse, an FBI official told Fox News Digital

Hazelelponi said:

Yet it was the FBI who had to build that faux gallow.

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Is there proof of that?

Hazelelponi said:

Yet it was the FBI who had to build that faux gallow.

When the FBI has to go to that much trouble to try and pop something off it's almost like nothing would have happened if not for the FBI.

And no, people cannot just walk up on Capitol Hill and start building gallows without being arrested - any day of the week let alone during hotly contested election results, which would be considered a heightened threat environment in the first place.

Our government doesn't play games, they arrest people for that stuff - unless that stuff is what they sanctioned.

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Yes, it was the FBI built the gallow. And It is actually aliens making fancy patterns in wheat fields.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

As such, responsibility for outcomes rested with the administration,

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While ultimately yes, we can blame the top guy - but we all know that government runs on the backs of many people - including Democrats - and we had just come out of a 4 year war in government no one (on the right) expected the valid election of Donald Trump to be.

There was plenty of signs from the top Democrats that they wanted something to happen at that rally - so many in fact my husband didn't allow me to attend - because of the potential that the FBI would be riling people up and trying to start a riot going in order to paint the right as villains.

So I didn't go and crazy enough, my husband was absolutely right in his prediction. It was definitely a positive to stay home that day.

I can accept a lot of things from government, but the FBI has always had a penchant for entrapment according to popular tbeory and they out themselves as much as any criminals all the time. The FBI has always wanted to be above the president and accountable to no onev - or so popular theory goes.

We prefer to have full faith and trust in our institutions, but it's more difficult with the FBI, and they make it so all by themselves

That said, the people who were violent and broke down doors- regardless of what the FBI was cooking up it was their fault for getting themselves caught up in that, but 4 years in jail, beaten and tortured and in some cases denied their constitutional rights was certainly more punishment than the BLM rioters got, therefore it was punishment enough.

But yeah, not that trustworthy of the FBI and they didn't polish up that image on Jan 6.

Had the national guard been there all this would have been avoided,- and Donald Trump asked for national guard to be there. It was Nancy Pelosi who said she didn't send them in.

But Jan 6 - the FBI is as culpable as those rioters for what happened. And again, citizens can't just go building gallows on the grounds without being noticed and arrested. Common sense and a heightened threat environment.

Hazelelponi said:

While ultimately yes, we can blame the top guy - but we all know that government runs on the backs of many people - including Democrats - and we had just come out of a 4 year war in government no one (on the right) expected the valid election of Donald Trump to be.

There was plenty of signs from the top Democrats that they wanted something to happen at that rally - so many in fact my husband didn't allow me to attend - because of the potential that the FBI would be riling people up and trying to start a riot going in order to paint the right as villains.

So I didn't go and crazy enough, my husband was absolutely right in his prediction. It was definitely a positive to stay home that day.

I can accept a lot of things from government, but the FBI has always had a penchant for entrapment according to popular tbeory and they out themselves as much as any criminals all the time. The FBI has always wanted to be above the president and accountable to no onev - or so popular theory goes.

We prefer to have full faith and trust in our institutions, but it's more difficult with the FBI, and they make it so all by themselves

That said, the people who were violent and broke down doors- regardless of what the FBI was cooking up it was their fault for getting themselves caught up in that, but 4 years in jail, beaten and tortured and in some cases denied their constitutional rights was certainly more punishment than the BLM rioters got, therefore it was punishment enough.

But yeah, not that trustworthy of the FBI and they didn't polish up that image on Jan 6.

Had the national guard been there all this would have been avoided,- and Donald Trump asked for national guard to be there. It was Nancy Pelosi who said she didn't send them in.

But Jan 6 - the FBI is as culpable as those rioters for what happened. And again, citizens can't just go building gallows on the grounds without being noticed and arrested. Common sense and a heightened threat environment.

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Throughout the history of American democracy, individuals from diverse political affiliations—including Democrats, Republicans, members of other parties, conservatives, and liberals—have served in government agencies with dedication to the nation. This has been a longstanding tradition since the inception of American democracy. There was no evidence of a "deep state" during the presidencies of Truman, Clinton, Bush, or Obama. The American custom has been for each new president to appoint cabinet and department heads as political appointees, while most government positions are held by career public servants irrespective of their political perspectives. This approach has contributed Greatness to America's success over the past 250 years.

Subsequently, President Trump alleged that certain public servants within the FBI, DOJ, and other agencies were acting against him, a claim embraced by his supporters. However, for rest of Americans, the government continues to function with dedicated individuals serving the nation across all sectors, regardless of their political affiliation.

There was no indication that Democrats sought any particular outcome on January 6, 2021. The election had concluded, all votes had been counted, and President Biden emerged as the definitive winner. January 6 was intended to be a ceremonial event in Congress to officially certify President Biden as the next president—a congressional procedure Americans have followed for centuries.

The certification process is intended to be a routine procedure in Congress, one that most Americans have not been aware of for over 200 years. President Trump was under no obligation to invite anyone to Washington, D.C. If he wished to express gratitude to his supporters for their campaign and election support, he could have simply posted a message on social media or delivered a live Oval Office broadcast to thank the nation.

I do not believe that President Trump, his administration, or the majority of his supporters intended for the events on January 6 to occur after he left the podium. The violence witnessed on January 6 was perpetrated by a small group and not by the overwhelming majority of President Trump's supporters. Those who engaged in violent acts were misguided and do not represent true patriotism.

Why did people gather in DC on January 6?

You have expressed your intention to participate in the gathering scheduled for January 6. Could you please share the objective of your attendance?

It is likely that you participated in the campaign and may have contributed to President Trump's 2020 election effort, perhaps by canvassing door-to-door or working at a phone bank to encourage voters to support him. I am also confident that you exercised your right to vote on Election Day. Thank you for fulfilling your civic duty and upholding your constitutional rights, exemplifying true American citizenship.

By January 6, the election had concluded and all voting and democratic procedures by American citizens were complete. What was your intention to attend the gathering on January 6?

Democrats did not ask their supporters to come to Washington, D.C., on January 6, and then-president-elect Joe Biden also did not encourage his supporters to attend. Therefore, it is unclear why many believed that Democrats wanted something specific to happen at the rally. There were no calls from Democrats for anyone to participate in the event. Most were at home following their recent election victory and waiting for President Trump to leave office in 14 days.

Vambram said:

Unfortunately, all those people you mentioned were part of the deep state anti-Trump group who were working against Trump behind the scenes.

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Many career public servants, regardless of political affiliation, have worked under five, six, or even seven presidents from both major parties, without being labelled as a "deep state" opposing the president.

Perhaps the issue does not lie with them, but rather with the individual referring to them as the "deep state."

James Clapper held senior intelligence roles under Presidents H. Bush, Clinton, W. Bush, Obama, and Trump. Only President Trump referred to him as "deep state".

It is not an anti Trump deep state causing Trump to screw over people who signed up for Trump U. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused Trump to screw over his contractors. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused him to housing discriminate against blacks. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused Trump to misuse foundation donations for personal use. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused Trump to skirt paying taxes for Trump org employees. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state caused Trump to seek, anticipate, and use Russian assistance in his presidential campaign. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused Trump to try and blackmail Ukraine to interfere in our elections. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused Trump to be found guilty of cooking his mortgage claims. He did that;
It is not an anti Trump deep state caused Trump to try and have Georgia conduct election fraud. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused Trump to attempt the overturn of a presidential election replete with a coup. He did that.
It is not an anti Trump deep state that caused Trump to obstruct the FBI as they tried to recoup classified documents. He did that.

People think this nefarious conspiracy in play to take down Trump, when it reality it is again his own self inflicted gun shot wounds.
Maybe, just maybe, when one thinks it's the fault of everyone else, maybe in reality it's just you.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

Many career public servants, regardless of political affiliation, have worked under five, six, or even seven presidents from both major parties, without being labelled as a "deep state" opposing the president.

Perhaps the issue does not lie with them, but rather with the individual referring to them as the "deep state."

James Clapper held senior intelligence roles under Presidents H. Bush, Clinton, W. Bush, Obama, and Trump. Only President Trump referred to him as "deep state".

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I served in the military under six presidents myself. There was only President I liked as my Commander-in-Chief...and yet I despised that same man's politics.

They all expect to do 30 or 40 years in government and work for a variety of White House "short-timers."

People in government, particularly in organizations like the FBI and CIA, tend to be classically conservative. They tend to be people who uphold the status quo. Yes, they will tend to resist extreme changes, both from the left and the right, but generally those changes had been more from the left than the right. So, yeah, I'd guess that most people in the FBI and CIA, not to mention the military, were and are Republicans.

But they're not extreme right-wing activists, and that's where Trump rubbed them raw. Let's face it, James Mattis is certainly nobody's liberal, but not even he could stomach working for Trump.

Hazelelponi said:

There was plenty of signs from the top Democrats that they wanted something to happen at that rally - so many in fact my husband didn't allow me to attend - because of the potential that the FBI would be riling people up and trying to start a riot going in order to paint the right as villains.

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Maybe Pelosi shouldn’t have invited people to the “rally” to “Stop the Steal”, promising that it would “be wild”.