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Multiple victims in Michigan church shooting; church on fire

iluvatar5150

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Can you name a single mass school shooting prior to Columbine?

One's (in)ability to recall certain events doesn't mean they didn't happen. They did:

Most of those are the result of fights, but you can scroll through the list and see many with multiple victims that match what we'd now call mass shootings.

Obviously, the pattern shows that the further a nation becomes more secular, human life has less value.
Well, yeah, back then, we just defined blacks and indians as non-human.
 
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NxNW

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JosephZ

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My guess is he was an excommunicated member of that particular church.
Two church members being interviewed on Fox 2 Detroit said the man wasn't known to them.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Agreed. This is what happens to a nation that no longer has the fear of the Lord. The ultimate result is a loss of human value. I have said it before, and I will say it again. Things are going to get worse before they get better. But it will not get better until the nation repents and returns to the Lord.
This happens more in the United States, than other countries. Even countries that don't believe in God. Forcing a Godly nation does nothing. I wouldn't be surprised, if religion had something to do with this shooting. He was in the war and that would make him not care about death.
 
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Servus

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If you cant name a year, then you are talking about a myth - not reality.

If youre right, it should be easy.
It's a matter of a gradual increase in secularism and a gradual decrease in godliness.
 
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JosephZ

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Well, the truck used to ram the building had an Iraq veteran license plate and two American flags mounted in the bed, so… probably not a lefty this time.
Street View on Google maps shows a Trump/Vance sign on the shooter's property as of June 2025.

ch2.jpg

ch.jpg
 
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durangodawood

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It's a matter of a gradual increase in secularism and a gradual decrease in godliness.
Im not asking for the one moment when it tipped into secularism and mayhem.

I'm just asking for any year when godliness was more the norm and we treated each other better on average.

If hes right and hes actually thought about it, it should be easy.
 
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Desk trauma

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Back to back shootings from marine Iraq war vets. Should I expect calls for all marine vets to be barred from firearm ownership and involuntarily committed or is collective guilt confined to trans folks?
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Why is Trump failing to fix this?
Gee. What are your thoughts about posting the Ten Commandments in Louisiana and Oklahoma public schools? The answer is that we are fighting a spiritual battle against principalities and powers who hate the word of God being spoken in areas that they have dominated for decades.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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This happens more in the United States, than other countries. Even countries that don't believe in God. Forcing a Godly nation does nothing. I wouldn't be surprised, if religion had something to do with this shooting. He was in the war and that would make him not care about death.
Do you oppose sharing the Gospel as commanded by Jesus when he gave the Great Commission? In this case, it was a lack of religion, specifically a lack of Christian religion, that I believe is the root cause of much of the violence in this country.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Back to back shootings from marine Iraq war vets. Should I expect calls for all marine vets to be barred from firearm ownership and involuntarily committed or is collective guilt confined to trans folks?
Enlisting in the marines should be reclassified as a mental disorder.
Gee. What are your thoughts about posting the Ten Commandments in Louisiana and Oklahoma public schools?

Posting the ten commandments is nothing more than red meat for the base. Not only is it wildly unconstitutional, but it’s not how you win people to christ.
 
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DaisyDay

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Two mass shootings in public settings on the same day by veterans. Let’s see if they say he had mental health problems too.

~bella
I would imagine so. Do you think someone in his right mind would do this? There's no money in it.
 
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bèlla

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I would imagine so. Do you think someone in his right mind would do this? There's no money in it.

I don’t think its that. I’m watching things build. ;-)

~bella
 
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Desk trauma

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Enlisting in the marines should be reclassified as a mental disorder.
Every one of Uncle Sam’s misguided children I have known would agree with that.
 
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Hans Blaster

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For 300 years, using the New England Primer, McGuffey Reader, Blue Back Speller, and Holy Bible, the nation's schools taught Christian doctrine pervasively.
Perversely.

The "nation" hasn't existed for 300 years, only 250. Public schools only become relatively wide spread 200 years ago.

States have been incorporating into their constitutions laws against sectarian education from the mid-19th century. I think you are mistaking a few prayers and a bible verse that did exist in the common schools for the kind of pervasive religious education from parochial schools.
That ingrained upon all children a sense of objective moral values, individual responsibility, respect for others, law and order, and eventual judgement before God.
Morals aren't objective. Schools weren't teaching sectarian dogmas about "judgment".
That all changed in the second half of the 20th century with the removal of God, the Bible and prayer from the classrooms.
Good. Never belonged their legally in the first place.
Since the secularization of America's educational system, the number of teen pregnancies, teen suicides, and school shootings have skyrocketed.
We can check some of these correlations, and teen pregnancy rates are *higher* in states with more church attendance and self described Christians.
The number of Christians have declined each decade as the culture has worsened, and now it's also affecting the churches, pregnancy centers, and outspoken Christian agencies.
So sad. Don't care.
Is this coincidence? I don't think so. I agree that America has to regain it's Christian heritage to solve the cultural problems, but I don't see it happening.
America isn't a Christian nation with a Christian heritage.
We have too many professing Christians siding with the Devil on the nation's sins - advocating a separation of church and state, embracing evolution teaching over creationism and opposing the death penalty while supporting abortion rights, gay marriage, transgender ideology, critical race theory, and other moral relativism values.
1. Church-state separation is part of the founding laws of the United States.
2. Evolution is a successful scientific explanation of Earth's biological organisms. Creationism is religion (See #1.)
3. Executions are Christian? (Shouldn't they be crucifictions if they are?) A few states ended executions before the Civil War (they were, not coincidentally, slave-free states.) There are massive churches who make the same "moral decay" claim against "secularism" that you do and consider executions to be just as immoral as abortion.
4. All morals are relative. Deal with it.
God help America. In the meantime, I'd suggest that CCW's be welcomed in all churches.
I would have never attended a service that welcomed armed people inside God's house.
Most one-time shooters, like career criminals, don't really want to face a gunfight or die.
LOL. A significant fraction of these "one-time shooters" appear to be suicidal. Many shoot themselves or are attempting "suicide by cop". Now, assassins seem to be interested in getting away (Minnesota assassin, Kirk assassin, United Healthcare assassin).
A little more self protection would not only reduce future casualties but might also deter some prospective shooters contemplating the idea.
Nah, they'll just have to plan a little more to ensure their intended "kill count" before they expire.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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One's (in)ability to recall certain events doesn't mean they didn't happen. They did:
So basically there was relatively no mass shootings in schools.


Most of those are the result of fights, but you can scroll through the list and see many with multiple victims that match what we'd now call mass shootings.
Yes. Gang violence was a thing where one kid tried killing another kid for one reason or another. But never a mass, indiscriminate killing.
I am not going to argue. Teenage gang-bangers trying to kill another is not new., yeah, back then, we just defined blacks and indians as non-human.
Blacks and Indian as non-human? Another red herring has entered the conversation.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Back to back shootings from marine Iraq war vets. Should I expect calls for all marine vets to be barred from firearm ownership and involuntarily committed or is collective guilt confined to trans folks?
I actually don't have an issue with PTSD being a disqualifying factor for gun ownership.

It's not a completely unheard of issue for combat veterans to have some psychological issues, and "not be able to separate the sharks from the guppies anymore" when they get back home for a while.
 
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