• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Word in the Heart's righteousness by the Faith

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
5,024
2,059
59
Alabama
Visit site
✟575,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31) and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,748
7,644
North Carolina
✟360,150.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and i, "n our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31) and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)
Ro 1:17 is in regard to "a righteousness from God. . .that is by faith;" i.e., the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

The sanctification of faith is through obedience in the Holy Spirit; obedience to the law of love of God and love of neighbor.
The salvation of faith is through faith alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

HIM

Friend
Site Supporter
Mar 9, 2018
5,024
2,059
59
Alabama
Visit site
✟575,430.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Ro 1:17 is in regard to "a righteousness from God. . .that is by faith;" i.e., the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).
No, it isn't. There is imputed righteousness. And this imputed righteousness gets us to Heaven. But Paul isn't getting into that until chapter 4 and 5. This righteousness that Paul is speaking here is that which is of the obedience of faith that verse 5 speaks if we hold to the context of the passage..

(Net Rom 1:5) Through Him we have received grace and our apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles on behalf of his name.

As he continues to verse 17 he says in 15 that he is ready to preach the Gospel and that he is not ashamed of it, for in it is the power of God unto salvation. Because there in the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith. For the just, the lawful out of faith shall live. Because that which may be known of God is manifested in them. For the invisible things from the creation of the world are clearly seen, so they are without excuse. For God has said, I will put the word in their mouth and in their hearts, that is the word of faith in which we preach. "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness"


Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,410
11,947
Georgia
✟1,101,772.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, 7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HIM
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,748
7,644
North Carolina
✟360,150.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No, it isn't. There is imputed righteousness. And this imputed righteousness gets us to Heaven. But Paul isn't getting into that until chapter 4 and 5.
He may not develop it until Ro 4-5, but the only righteousness from God is the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, 13, 9:30, Php 3:9).
This righteousness that Paul is speaking here is that which is of the obedience of faith that verse 5 speaks if we hold to the context of the passage..
(Net Rom 1:5) Through Him we have received grace and our apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles on behalf of his name.
As he continues to verse 17 he says in 15 that he is ready to preach the Gospel and that he is not ashamed of it, for in it is the power of God unto salvation. Because there in the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith. For the just, the lawful out of faith shall live. Because that which may be known of God is manifested in them. For the invisible things from the creation of the world are clearly seen, so they are without excuse. For God has said, I will put the word in their mouth and in their hearts, that is the word of faith in which we preach. "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness"


Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,410
11,947
Georgia
✟1,101,772.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
He may not develop it until Ro 4-5, but the only righteousness from God is the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, 13, 9:30, Php 3:9).
both Justification (in Rom 5:1) and sanctification (Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.) are from God. Both are necessary. One happens the moment we accept Christ and keeps happening every day after that. The other continues and grows each day of our life, it is the one "we pursue"
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,748
7,644
North Carolina
✟360,150.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
both Justification (in Rom 5:1) and sanctification (Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.) are from God. Both are necessary. One happens the moment we accept Christ and keeps happening every day after that. The other continues and grows each day of our life, it is the one "we pursue"
Justification being a one-time act of God; i.e., a declaration of not guilty, a sentence of acquittal, a pronouncement of sinlessness (as the result of forgiveness of sin through faith).

Sanctification being an on-going work of the Holy Spirit within the believer, transforming his character and actions.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,672
4,685
Hudson
✟350,057.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31) and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)
Character traits are not something that can be earned as the result of our works, but rather they are embodied through our works, so the issue of the way that someone attains a character traits is different from what it means for someone to have a character trait. The only way for someone to attain a character trait is through faith and what it means for someone to have a character trait is for them to be a doer of that trait. For example, the only way for someone to become courageous is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough courageous works in order to earn it as the result, but it would be contradictory for someone to become courageous apart from becoming a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for righteousness and every other character trait. This is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Torah, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31). Everyone who has faith will be declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of the Torah, which is how Paul can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works while also affirming in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the Torah will be declared righteous.

We can do works that embody our faith, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so everyone who is a doer of the same works as James has faith in Christ. Christ is God’s Word made flesh, so the way to have faith in him is by following his example of embodying God’s Word and it would be contradictory to think that we should have faith in him instead of in God’s Word. This is also why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to Him, such as with Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God’s commandments.

In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Torah is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are submitting to by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
29,748
7,644
North Carolina
✟360,150.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
both Justification (in Rom 5:1)
Justification is a declaration by God of one's remission of sin through faith in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ, where upon God reckons/imputes the righteousness of Christ to one (Php 3:9).
and sanctification (Heb 12:14 Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.) are from God. Both are necessary. One happens the moment we accept Christ and keeps happening every day after that. The other continues and grows each day of our life, it is the one "we pursue"
 
Upvote 0