Citing Charlie Kirk murder, Tennessee pastor demands removal of 'Hate Has No Home' signs

ThatRobGuy said:

That's not what I said, clearly you're not understanding the tone of my post.

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That’s because apparently words only have semantic meaning.

essentialsaltes said:

"When you accuse someone of preaching hate, they are saying I hope somebody puts a bullet in your neck. That's what that means," [Andrew] Isker claimed in a live podcast Friday afternoon.

Isker derided what he described as “many foolish Christian leaders” who have urged people to follow the words of Jesus to love their enemies and to turn the other cheek.

“This great evil must not be tolerated. It must be rooted out and eradicated," he insisted.

That vengeance, he said, would come in the form of government crackdown, not from vigilante action.

[From his Facebook post to a Jackson County group]

The Hate Has No Home in Gainesboro/Jackson County signs did not bother me. I have always known I have opinions that some people will disagree with. It was no surprise that people would react strongly when the TV (falsely) told them that a Nazi had moved into the area.
But things have changed after yesterday. Gainesboro is my home now. I am not leaving. If the "hate" is me, and I am not leaving, "no home here" means the only way I don't have a home here is if someone kills me.
I don't think anyone who has these signs up supports radical leftist terrorism. I think you are decent Americans who disagree with my views. But you need to understand what your message is being associated with: it has been taken to mean you support violence against people you hate. If you really believe the rhetoric needs to be toned down, you will show it by putting these signs away.

[Sorry pal, just because you apparently take this criticism to mean that doesn't mean it does. It is by no means inciting or a threat. We are all allowed to opine that you are preaching hate.]

"I hope every scumbag journalist is shaking in his boots right now."

As Scripps News Nashville first revealed, Isker is leading an effort to establish a Christian nationalist community in Jackson County, Tennessee, about 90 minutes northeast of Nashville.

see also:

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He sounds pleasant.

Maria Billingsley said:

O

Oh boy! Did it ever occur to the creator of this content that if you hate Jesus Christ of Nazareth you are by definition, not a Christian.
No, I have not watched the video. Feels like click bait. Thanks for sharing.
Be blessed.

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Not clickbait. You would have done well to watch the video, or at the very least not merely presume what the video was about. Especially since I suspect you would agree with its content if you had watched it.

The video is about, at its core, the offense of the Gospel. That grace has always been offensive to those who want religion to be about moral authority and control--religion as a tool for pride, rather than religion as meeting the vulnerable in their weakness and embracing them with the radical kindness of God. That the Jesus who ate dinner with prostitutes and tax collectors, and spent time with lepers, and who declared forgiveness of sins, and who healed on the Sabbath is the Jesus who was a stumbling block, a rock of offense. Jesus was hated in His own time because of His mercy. Because how dare this Galilean carpenter include lepers who "obviously" were cursed by God because of sin; how dare this Galilean carpenter claim He could forgive sins; how dare this Galilean carpenter eat and drink with sinners or heal people on the Sabbath--He should know His place, who does He think He is, doesn't He know who we are? By what authority does He think He has the right to come out here and say what He's saying, do what He's doing, and then dare call us hypocrites and blind guides? We sit in Moses' seat, we're the righteous, we're the holy ones. I earned my place at God's table. That same attitude that hated Jesus then, hates Jesus now.

“Well, it was the result of having multiple pastors tell me essentially the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount parenthetically in their preaching - turn the other cheek - to have someone come up after and to say, where did you get those liberal talking points? And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ, the response would not be, I apologize. The response would be, yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak. And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis.” - Russel Moore in an August 2023 interview on NPR

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Not clickbait. You would have done well to watch the video, or at the very least not merely presume what the video was about. Especially since I suspect you would agree with its content if you had watched it.

The video is about, at its core, the offense of the Gospel. That grace has always been offensive to those who want religion to be about moral authority and control--religion as a tool for pride, rather than religion as meeting the vulnerable in their weakness and embracing them with the radical kindness of God. That the Jesus who ate dinner with prostitutes and tax collectors, and spent time with lepers, and who declared forgiveness of sins, and who healed on the Sabbath is the Jesus who was a stumbling block, a rock of offense. Jesus was hated in His own time because of His mercy. Because how dare this Galilean carpenter include lepers who "obviously" were cursed by God because of sin; how dare this Galilean carpenter claim He could forgive sins; how dare this Galilean carpenter eat and drink with sinners or heal people on the Sabbath--He should know His place, who does He think He is, doesn't He know who we are? By what authority does He think He has the right to come out here and say what He's saying, do what He's doing, and then dare call us hypocrites and blind guides? We sit in Moses' seat, we're the righteous, we're the holy ones. I earned my place at God's table. That same attitude that hated Jesus then, hates Jesus now.

“Well, it was the result of having multiple pastors tell me essentially the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount parenthetically in their preaching - turn the other cheek - to have someone come up after and to say, where did you get those liberal talking points? And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ, the response would not be, I apologize. The response would be, yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak. And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis.” - Russel Moore in an August 2023 interview on NPR

-CryptoLutheran

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Ok! I will!
Thanks for sharing!

ThatRobGuy said:

While it sounds like this guy's a bit of a nut (and probably the wrong messenger to be making this critique)

I think we can stop pretending that the "Hate has no home here" slogan doesn't carry more meaning behind it than the mere generic semantic definition of the phrase.


When you look at a lot of the signage and "swag" being sold incorporating that phrase...

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The slogan has become something of a "catch-all" for every left-wing ideal/initiative, the implication that being that opposition to any of them = "Hate (that is not welcome in this home)"

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Interesting argument...
"We all know what these signs are really saying".
Yes. There is a LOT of reading between the lines that can happen with these signs.

That doesn't make them wrong.


it means hatred of those TARGETTED GROUPS will not be tolerated. I would note that MOST of these "hate has no place here" posters that i've seen (and that splatter the walls of my school) does not label political movements like "BLM".

But it also means that hatred at ANY group wouldn't be tolerated.

The issue in schools is that "any opposition" ALWAYS does look like disrespect...and in schools, that SHOUldn't be tolerated. The kid who sits in class and politely tells the teacher "I disagree with being gay" (well, where to start with that one), isn't using such "respectful" phrasology when talking to peers.

I have attended, my kids attend and my best friend teaches at Christian schools. This idea that "we don't need hate has no home here" signs is preposterous as I've also heard and seen the kinds of things Christians say to those VERY groups. Awful stuff.

I love those signs and I love when people argue they shouldn't be in classroom because it shows their heart clearer than anything they could actually say.

Larniavc said:

My initial thought was ‘this is just Christians disagreeing with each other as usual’ but on reflection this seems a significant departure from the message Jesus gives in the Bible.

I’d be interested to hear from anyone who agrees with a Christian message of MORE hate. That would take some doing I think.

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Silence.

ThatRobGuy said:

That's not what I said, clearly you're not understanding the tone of my post.


I'm saying that people who prop those signs up are suggesting that "Hate" = "Not going along with the political advocacy attached to these causes", and then disingenuously acting all aloof "gee, I'm just saying I'm against hate, what's wrong with that???"

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You're making an assumption about people you do not know....

ViaCrucis said:

.....“Well, it was the result of having multiple pastors tell me essentially the same story about quoting the Sermon on the Mount parenthetically in their preaching - turn the other cheek - to have someone come up after and to say, where did you get those liberal talking points? And what was alarming to me is that in most of these scenarios, when the pastor would say, I'm literally quoting Jesus Christ, the response would not be, I apologize. The response would be, yes, but that doesn't work anymore. That's weak. And when we get to the point where the teachings of Jesus himself are seen as subversive to us, then we're in a crisis.” - Russel Moore in an August 2023 interview on NPR
.....

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Christianity (and all the religions) are what people make them.

Some faithful believe God is guiding the various churches (or more likely just theirs) to restrain their path from the worst pitfalls. But honestly to me the whole thing looks exactly like what Id expect from the humans alone, with their mix of self interest, spite, and yes, reverence.

ThatRobGuy said:

That's not what I said, clearly you're not understanding the tone of my post.


I'm saying that people who prop those signs up are suggesting that "Hate" = "Not going along with the political advocacy attached to these causes", and then disingenuously acting all aloof "gee, I'm just saying I'm against hate, what's wrong with that???"

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The issue is not "not going along with the political advocacy". It's about the way those people choose to voice their disagreement/hate.

It's been a pretttttty rare occasion where the students at my school would EVER argue as you are because our population is a lot more honest about their behaviours and beliefs.

wing2000 said:

You're making an assumption about people you do not know....

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Oh I know several of the people who have those signs -- from family, to work acquaintances, most of their time is spent chastising other people (in the abstract) on social media for holding any viewpoint that's even the slightest bit right of center.

rambot said:

Interesting argument...
"We all know what these signs are really saying".
Yes. There is a LOT of reading between the lines that can happen with these signs.

That doesn't make them wrong.

it means hatred of those TARGETTED GROUPS will not be tolerated. I would note that MOST of these "hate has no place here" posters that i've seen (and that splatter the walls of my school) does not label political movements like "BLM".

But it also means that hatred at ANY group wouldn't be tolerated.

The issue in schools is that "any opposition" ALWAYS does look like disrespect...and in schools, that SHOUldn't be tolerated. The kid who sits in class and politely tells the teacher "I disagree with being gay" (well, where to start with that one), isn't using such "respectful" phrasology when talking to peers.

I have attended, my kids attend and my best friend teaches at Christian schools. This idea that "we don't need hate has no home here" signs is preposterous as I've also heard and seen the kinds of things Christians say to those VERY groups. Awful stuff.

I love those signs and I love when people argue they shouldn't be in classroom because it shows their heart clearer than anything they could actually say.

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But it's what gets conflated for hatred that's the sticking point.

Anything less than "let me do whatever I want, all the time" and "abandon your own viewpoints in favor of giving nothing less than full-throated support for mine" gets labelled as hate, when that's not the case.

The fact that so many of them contain the "power fist" and some sort of nod to BLM is a perfect example.


(from the wayback machine since many of their pages are no longer online)

The reason why I object to being told I'm "supposed to" like BLM has nothing to do with my view of Black people, it has to do with the fact that BLM chapters all over the country were espousing a bunch of "we need to dismantle capitalism" rhetoric.

I have no objection to the semantic meaning of "science is real"... I'm a person who believes in climate change, I'm vaccinated, and believe in evolution. I object to the notion that to meet the "pro-science purity test", I have to think that podcasts should be censored, I'm not allowed to say the "Just stop oil" people are idiots, I have to withhold critiques about unrelated baggage in the Green New Deal, and not be allowed to say I think it's ridiculous that anyone takes Greta Thunberg seriously.

Same goes for the trans issue, as I've stated before, I'm in favor of laws protecting marriage rights, and protecting against housing and job discrimination... I don't even particularly care all that much about where someone poops or pees. But in order to be considered "sufficiently pro-trans", I have to pretend that it's a completely wacky objection when some women say they're uncomfortable with penises in their changing rooms, and I have to pretend there's no substantial biological differences between males and females.

For gay rights... I, through power vested in me through by Unitarian/Universalist church (I've got the $20 certificate to prove it), have personally officiated a gay wedding. But, because I speak honestly about the content contained in the books GenderQueer and Flamer, and suggest that's maybe not 8th grade viewing material, that gets me the "anti-LGBT" label from the kinds of people who stick those kinds of signs in their yards.

Larniavc said:

Yeah words don’t have meaning beyond simply semantics.

It’s only possible to understand the meaning of the above sentence if you can appreciate words have more meaning than simple semantics.

Quite clever of me.

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That's was my point...

When people say "Make America Great Again" in contemporary usage, we all know what they actually think constitutes "great" (they think "great" means "a time where a certain group held sway, and everyone else took a backseat and knew their place in the pecking order")

Same applies to the "Hate has no place in this home" signs. we all know what they actually think constitutes "hate"

DaisyDay said:

You're claiming that the signs don't mean what they say but what you say they mean. I disagree.

Most conservatives I know are not ignorant, racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic or misogynistic; to paint them as such does them a grave disservice, imo.

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Many of the people who put up those kinds of signs would disagree with you.

61% of Democrats see Republicans as "racist/bigoted/sexist."

The suspicion runs so deep that a third of all Americans say they'd be disappointed if a close family member married someone whose partisanship didn't match their own, according to the poll for "Axios on HBO."

• The percentage saying they'd be at least somewhat bothered by this jumps to 50% among liberal Democrats; it's 32% among conservative Republicans.

Larniavc said:

Are you blind? It’s clearly trying to redefine President to King.

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Obviously, which is why I said I'd mock the sign if I saw it in someone's yard.

At least they're being honest about their intentions. A person with that sign wants Trump to have "king-like" powers because they think that'll solidify "their place" in society.

Unlike the other signs, where the people want to have their viewpoint solidified via badgering people into going along with it out of fear of being accused of "hate".

ThatRobGuy said:

Many of the people who put up those kinds of signs would disagree with you.

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And many would agree with me.

DaisyDay said:

And many would agree with me.

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39% of them...

Per the Axios poll, the other 61% see people with conservative views as "racist/sexist/bigoted"
(and 50% of liberal democrats went as far as saying they'd be disappointed if a family member married someone from the other political party, compared to only 32% of conservative republicans)

Let's not kid ourselves about which side has a more stringent (to the point of being off-putting) purity standard.

Conservatives welcomed Milo Yiannopolis... an over-the-top flamboyant gay man who used to brag about how big his black boyfriend's anatomy was

Liberals kicked out JK Rowling for criticizing the phrase "menstruating persons" and saying that gender affirming care shouldn't be performed on minors

ThatRobGuy said:

But it's what gets conflated for hatred that's the sticking point.

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In my post, I answered this to an extent but to be honest, it was mostly in a "school" context with the posters that are approved by my school board.

ThatRobGuy said:

Anything less than "let me do whatever I want, all the time" and "abandon your own viewpoints in favor of giving nothing less than full-throated support for mine" gets labelled as hate, when that's not the case.

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Listen. If you're going to say 4 people making comments online about something like this is worthy of consternation, I don't know what to say. There have been all manner of people and they've always existed but thanks to the internet we are now force to deal with their existence or just ignore them, thinking they are unreasonable.
I have never EVER heard anything like what you say but i have to give space because everything exists.

essentialsaltes said:

"When you accuse someone of preaching hate, they are saying I hope somebody puts a bul

essentialsaltes said:

"When you accuse someone of preaching hate, they are saying I hope somebody puts a bullet in your neck. That's what that means," [Andrew] Isker claimed in a live podcast Friday afternoon.

Isker derided what he described as “many foolish Christian leaders” who have urged people to follow the words of Jesus to love their enemies and to turn the other cheek.

“This great evil must not be tolerated. It must be rooted out and eradicated," he insisted.

That vengeance, he said, would come in the form of government crackdown, not from vigilante action.

[From his Facebook post to a Jackson County group]

The Hate Has No Home in Gainesboro/Jackson County signs did not bother me. I have always known I have opinions that some people will disagree with. It was no surprise that people would react strongly when the TV (falsely) told them that a Nazi had moved into the area.
But things have changed after yesterday. Gainesboro is my home now. I am not leaving. If the "hate" is me, and I am not leaving, "no home here" means the only way I don't have a home here is if someone kills me.
I don't think anyone who has these signs up supports radical leftist terrorism. I think you are decent Americans who disagree with my views. But you need to understand what your message is being associated with: it has been taken to mean you support violence against people you hate. If you really believe the rhetoric needs to be toned down, you will show it by putting these signs away.

[Sorry pal, just because you apparently take this criticism to mean that doesn't mean it does. It is by no means inciting or a threat. We are all allowed to opine that you are preaching hate.]

"I hope every scumbag journalist is shaking in his boots right now."

As Scripps News Nashville first revealed, Isker is leading an effort to establish a Christian nationalist community in Jackson County, Tennessee, about 90 minutes northeast of Nashville.

see also:

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let in your neck. That's what that means," [Andrew] Isker claimed in a live podcast Friday afternoon.

Isker derided what he described as “many foolish Christian leaders” who have urged people to follow the words of Jesus to love their enemies and to turn the other cheek.

“This great evil must not be tolerated. It must be rooted out and eradicated," he insisted.

That vengeance, he said, would come in the form of government crackdown, not from vigilante action.

[From his Facebook post to a Jackson County group]

The Hate Has No Home in Gainesboro/Jackson County signs did not bother me. I have always known I have opinions that some people will disagree with. It was no surprise that people would react strongly when the TV (falsely) told them that a Nazi had moved into the area.
But things have changed after yesterday. Gainesboro is my home now. I am not leaving. If the "hate" is me, and I am not leaving, "no home here" means the only way I don't have a home here is if someone kills me.
I don't think anyone who has these signs up supports radical leftist terrorism. I think you are decent Americans who disagree with my views. But you need to understand what your message is being associated with: it has been taken to mean you support violence against people you hate. If you really believe the rhetoric needs to be toned down, you will show it by putting these signs away.

[Sorry pal, just because you apparently take this criticism to mean that doesn't mean it does. It is by no means inciting or a threat. We are all allowed to opine that you are preaching hate.]

"I hope every scumbag journalist is shaking in his boots right now."

As Scripps News Nashville first revealed, Isker is leading an effort to establish a Christian nationalist community in Jackson County, Tennessee, about 90 minutes northeast of Nashville.

see also:

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He's obviously not listening to Charlie Kirk or Charlies wife.

Larniavc said:

So imagine a homophonic bigot

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Hpw would one determine they are a homophobic bigot? Are they really one if rhey "spends a few hours with an LGBTQ+ group of folks and never once mentions anything about LGBTQ+ but is in fact warm and engaging."?

rjs330 said:

Hpw would one determine they are a homophobic bigot? Are they really one if rhey "spends a few hours with an LGBTQ+ group of folks and never once mentions anything about LGBTQ+ but is in fact warm and engaging."?

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I was just struggling to imagine a homophonic bigot myself. Is that one who is prejudiced against homophones?