The Trump DOJ goes "woke" and will target free speech.

essentialsaltes · Friday at 9:46 AM

probinson said:
I don't support Trump shutting down this vigil, but by this guy's own words, the vigil is obviously just performative.

The Jan 6 rallies were performative until people started attacking law enforcement, breaking windows and threatening lawmakers.

Then it became criminal.

I prefer peaceful constitutionally-protected 'performative' protests.

probinson · Friday at 9:46 AM

Nithavela said:
I think vigils are performative by nature.

As do I. Literally speaking, a "vigil" is simply defined as a period of wakefulness when most people are sleeping.

Nithavela said:
Which is of course not how you get things down.

Agreed. I've personally never been a fan of performative things. But I support the rights of people who are.

probinson · Friday at 9:48 AM

essentialsaltes said:
The Jan 6 rallies were performative until people started attacking law enforcement, breaking windows and threatening lawmakers.

It's amazing to me how you think these two things are in any way related.

Say it aint so · Friday at 10:12 AM

mark46 said:
The democrats have had their immigration policy that changed drastically since Obama left.

You decry Republicans for saying that the Democratic policy leans toward open borders (when they are being gentle).
====
You cry "propoganda" No, just opinion. From 2017 onward, Democrats clearly stated their views on immigration. Everyone saw the results during the first three years of the Biden administration.

I would like to have a clarifying conversation on exactly what the policy of the Biden admin was. What exactly open borders mean? Because to me the borders albeit it restricted, have always been open. I know Biden provided some countries citizens temporary protection status. I know he increased the asylum numbers, but none of those are illegal entries. Can you clarify here?

RileyG · Friday at 12:21 PM

Nithavela said:
You will all need to filter yourselves.

Yup. Absolutely! My point exactly!

mark46 · Friday at 12:24 PM

Akita Suggagaki said:
This is no longer the United States I have known and loved for 70 years. This extension and abuse of power transcends parties. It is toxic to our basic values. How did we get here? Social media and cable news have insidiously helped.

I think I am backing out. This polemic forum and Facebook are about my only snares. Or maybe I can limit myself to non political, even non controversial topics.

I too am disappointed after following politics for 70 years but see no reason to drop out. I had that decision to make in the late 60's. I didn't drop out then and have not regretted that decision.

However, I also understand that these ideas and leaders are not a new thing. We have had such situations since the beginning of the 1776 experiment. Is this worse that the Klan's influence in the 20's, worse than the anti-Semitism and Nazi rallies of the 1930"s. worse than the McCarthyism (and racism) of the 50's? And we've had similar periods of darkness before that.

I don't know how long this era will last. In many ways, the country is yet to survive the aftermath of 911 with its resulting militarism, wars, and racism. I thought that we had a chance to reverse things more quickly with the election of Obama, but he was too soon.

One bottom line is that the world and its people are not in the horrible times that the social media and politicians want us to accept. We will continue to move past the bumps of history.
============
I think that we have been spoiled by living through the politics from 1976-2010 where there were great struggles, with generally common goals and purposes. Long gone are the vision of Reagan and O'Neill sitting down for a beer after the day's political fights. Long gone are the cooperation between Dole and Teddy Kennedy in the Seante. Even long gone are Nixon's cooperation with China and his sponsoring of the EPA.

Akita Suggagaki · Friday at 12:35 PM

mark46 said:
I too am disappointed after following politics for 70 years but see no reason to drop out. I had that decision to make in the late 60's. I didn't drop out then and have not regretted that decision.

However, I also understand that these ideas and leaders are not a new thing. We have had such situations since the beginning of the 1776 experiment. Is this worse that the Klan's influence in the 20's, worse than the anti-Semitism and Nazi rallies of the 1930"s. worse than the McCarthyism (and racism) of the 50's? And we've had similar periods of darkness before that.

I don't know how long this era will last. In many ways, the country is yet to survive the aftermath of 911 with its resulting militarism, wars, and racism. I thought that we had a chance to reverse things more quickly with the election of Obama, but he was too soon.

One bottom line is that the world and its people are not in the horrible times that the social media and politicians want us to accept. We will continue to move past the bumps of history.
============
I think that we have been spoiled by living through the politics from 1976-2010 where there were great struggles, with generally common goals and purposes. Long gone are the vision of or Reagan and O'Neill sitting down for a beer after the day's political fights. Long gone are the cooperation between Dole and Teddy Kennedy in the Seante. Even long gone are Nixon's cooperation with China and his sponsoring of the EPA.

I don’t want to drop out. But I also don’t want to collude with algorithms that engender anger and polarization. How then can I be light and salt? I guess more locally in person. Stay informed, ask questions practice dialogue with civility and cool head.

essentialsaltes · Friday at 2:51 PM

FOX NEWS' MARTHA MACCALLUM: Charlie said, you know, that there was no such thing as hate speech. He obviously– you know no one anticipated what would happen to Charlie.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Yeah–. He might not be saying that now!

MARTHA MACCALLUM: But you have always been in favor of free speech. So do you have concerns about–.

You know some people look at this, and your critics will say, well–. This crackdown is a crackdown on free speech.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You know, it’s interesting. I watch your show and I watch others and I see people saying things. They’re crazy.

mark46 · Friday at 2:52 PM

Say it aint so said:
I would like to have a clarifying conversation on exactly what the policy of the Biden admin was. What exactly open borders mean? Because to me the borders albeit it restricted, have always been open. I know Biden provided some countries citizens temporary protection status. I know he increased the asylum numbers, but none of those are illegal entries. Can you clarify here?

???

Democrats hide behind the legal and reasonable policies regarding taking in those from Afghanistan and Syria. Shame on Trump for no continuing those programs.
=====
That is NOT what folks voted against. 10 million entered the country illegally under Biden's watch. One can argue that the president, his priorities, executive orders and leadership had nothing to do with those millions crossing. Or one can simply look the other way and say "what problem" or there was nothing to be done.
=========
The reality is that folks saw illegal immigration under the Democrats and under Trump. They have judged and will continue to judge.
==============
AS AN ASIDE
How to deal with undocumented immigrants already WITHIN the country is a different discussion entirely.

First we need to celebrate the fact that Trump has closed the border to illegal immigrants.

Next, we need to deal with issues surrounding those here illegally (whether they have committed violent crimes or not). Fighting Trump's METHODS is fine but is really a diversion. We should focus. We need to allow Dreamers to become citizens and those who have been here for more than 5 years to have a path to citizenship. The rest should be deported and Democrats should SUPPORT that happening.

THEN AND ONLY THEN can we discuss new immigration policies which will reasonably bring in the millions of young workers that we need and we will need going forward and bring in some of the true asylum seekers (especially those who have worked for the US overseas).

essentialsaltes · Friday at 3:05 PM

per atrupar

Kayleigh McEnany on Jimmy Kimmel's suspension [on FOX NEWS]: "For all the concern about the 'the First Amendment, the First Amendment,' what about all the amendments that Charlie Kirk lost? Because Charlie Kirk has no amendments right now. None."

That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!

mark46 · Friday at 3:08 PM

Akita Suggagaki said:
I don’t want to drop out. But I also don’t want to collude with algorithms that engender anger and polarization. How then can I be light and salt? I guess more locally in person. Stay informed, ask questions practice dialogue with civility and cool head.

I think that the solution is kindness in our everyday actions.
=====================

Here are some practice kindness quotes: "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible," by the Dalai Lama.

Focusing on the Impact of Kindness

"No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted." – Aesop
"Kind words can be short and easy to speak, but their echoes are truly endless." – Mother Teresa
"Kindness is like snow. It beautifies everything it covers." – Kahlil Gibran
"A little spark of kindness can put a colossal burst of sunshine into someone's day." – Unknown

Highlighting Kindness as a Choice

"Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." – Dalai Lama
"If you have a choice between being right and being kind, choose kind." – Dr. Wayne W. Dyer
"Kindness is a choice. Choose wisely." – Roy T. Bennett

Akita Suggagaki · Friday at 3:32 PM

mark46 said:
"No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted." – Aesop

We need more Aesop. I hope they teach him in elementary school.

Say it aint so · Friday at 3:33 PM

mark46 said:
???

Democrats hide behind the legal and reasonable policies regarding taking in those from Afghanistan and Syria. Shame on Trump for no continuing those programs.
=====
That is NOT what folks voted against. 10 million entered the country illegally under Biden's watch. One can argue that the president, his priorities, executive orders and leadership had nothing to do with those millions crossing. Or one can simply look the other way and say "what problem" or there was nothing to be done.
=========
The reality is that folks saw illegal immigration under the Democrats and under Trump. They have judged and will continue to judge.
==============
AS AN ASIDE
How to deal with undocumented immigrants already WITHIN the country is a different discussion entirely.

First we need to celebrate the fact that Trump has closed the border to illegal immigrants.

Next, we need to deal with issues surrounding those here illegally (whether they have committed violent crimes or not). Fighting Trump's METHODS is fine but is really a diversion. We should focus. We need to allow Dreamers to become citizens and those who have been here for more than 5 years to have a path to citizenship. The rest should be deported and Democrats should SUPPORT that happening.

THEN AND ONLY THEN can we discuss new immigration policies which will reasonably bring in the millions of young workers that we need and we will need going forward and bring in some of the true asylum seekers (especially those who have worked for the US overseas).

Great. Absolutely none of this answers any of my questions.

mark46 · Friday at 3:51 PM

Reply

Say it aint so said:
Great. Absolutely none of this answers any of my questions.

OK, I'll be clear.

I didn't understand (and cannot identify) the Biden border policies, only that they allowed millions of unwanted, undocumented people to come across the border. I'm not even sure of what Trump's individual border policies are.

The issue is extremely complex with hundreds of decisions, policies and actions. Immigration is not my expertise. I judge border policy by results and even by expected results.
==============
And just BTW, we have a closed border. I can judge what I think the border will be like with Harris and the left in charge of immigration policy. Should I believe that it would remain close. For those who so believe, I think stock in the Brooklyn Bridge and Everglades swampland is still available for sale.

Bradskii · Friday at 7:08 PM

probinson said:
I don't support Trump shutting down this vigil, but by this guy's own words, the vigil is obviously just performative. He might as well just said, "We've sat here for 44 years and accomplished absolutely nothing."

Still, if you want to sit somewhere for 44 years and accomplish nothing, that's your right. And I support it.

It's become international news:

Police dismantle longstanding White House peace vigil on Trump’s orders

Anti-nuclear protest had been in place for decades before president ordered its removal after journalist’s question

www.theguardian.com

And what they have accomplished is to confirm how petty a man Trump is. We didn't need a guy to sit under a tarp to show us that, but it all helps.

Hentenza · Friday at 7:11 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
I'm not clear on what you want me to support. My statement that a senator's voting record can't show you that they're "far left"? Because that's not opinion - that's fact.

That’s opinion not fact.

Hentenza · Friday at 7:15 PM

NxNW said:
None of these "views" are part of the Dem platform. That's something the GOP made up,

It’s not a matter of platform but what they support. You can bury your head in the sand but it is what it is.

NxNW said:
It may be a perception, but it's not the truth.

As I said, none of those issues are part of the Dem platform. Harris was criticized at being too harsh as a prosecutor.

She was soft in crime. Prove otherwise.

Hentenza · Friday at 7:18 PM

NxNW said:
Propaganda.

More propaganda.

Prove otherwise. Your opinion does not count.

NxNW said:
Propaganda again. You're falling for it right and left. But mostly on the right.

Again, prove otherwise.

Hentenza · Friday at 7:20 PM

NxNW said:
Democrats lean right, Republicans lean far right.

Where in the world do you get that from? You can’t be further from the truth. You made the premise so now prove it.

Akita Suggagaki · Friday at 7:58 PM

Very often the ones most sensitive or offended are also the worse offenders. As Christians we must be willing to be vulnerable as we model the behavior we want to see on others. I am pretty poor at it. Does that mean walk on eggshells? It takes deep discernment to decide between holding your peace and turning the tables over.

We must be able to communicate and discuss civilly if we want to survive as a nation.

The Trump DOJ goes "woke" and will target free speech.

Fact-Based Lifeform

Legend

Legend

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Fact-Based Lifeform

Well-Known Member

Fact-Based Lifeform

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

I will fear no evil for You are with me

I will fear no evil for You are with me

I will fear no evil for You are with me

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

Similar threads