Christians - May I have your attention for a moment?

ralliann said:

The problem is , Who is the "we". There is you, and there is the government over you. As long as the government does not decide other wise...

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there we have laws and the ability to enforce those laws if they that are put as representatives goes against it. I think it is also what country it is as in Sweden we have not had too much trouble. But I held to the first of course. If they start to misuse they should be dismissed. Sweden are very humanitarian we took in plenty in ww2. And a reason we still do.

ralliann said:

ah ok so you are 70% total government control.

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no totally not. I mean it is only how the laws and regulations are, we do not have as many private owned companies as Uk for example where everything is private. for example the rail way in uk turned catastrophe, now they are talking of more stability and balance by a part being state controlled. it is on those lines

In sweden everything works. we have good bike roads everywhere, we have free right to roam in nature, free almost child care, free hospitals, good public services, good social services and benefit system, good treatment of ill people and help, very little criminality(those we hear of only happened recently) it is partly because we have laws and regulations how to share everything and where it goes. as well the state owned a certain percentage makes it more stable. it is definitely not like we see in so called negative countries.

Godcrazy said:

In sweden everything works. we have good bike roads everywhere, we have free right to roam in nature,

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In America we expect these things as human rights

Godcrazy said:

free almost child care, free hospitals, good public services, good social services and benefit system, good treatment of ill people and help, very little criminality

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We also here had decent health care in our history. Also criminality was dealt with . Until peole in government decided these things were purposely corroded.

Godcrazy said:

(those we hear of only happened recently) it is partly because we have laws and regulations how to share everything and where it goes.

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Government shares the money they have controlled. A distinct entity of people as well. It is good at least for now they choose to do this...

Godcrazy said:

as well the state owned a certain percentage makes it more stable. it is definitely not like we see in so called negative countries.

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Until the wealth runs out, then what? All it really is, is an exchange of wealth from one group of people to another.... one group produced and built the wealth, while the other does not produce it.

ralliann said:

In America we expect these things as human rights

We also here had decent health care in our history. Also criminality was dealt with . Until peole in government decided these things were purposely corroded.

Government shares the money they have controlled. A distinct entity of people as well. It is good at least for now they choose to do this...

Until the wealth runs out, then what? All it really is, is an exchange of wealth from one group of people to another.... one group produced and built the wealth, while the other does not produce it.

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Actually, most of it is done through high tax that then is split fairly with a large extent for the social services. We do not have that many rich, everyone pay high tax. together.

Godcrazy said:

Actually, most of it is done through high tax that then is split fairly with a large extent for the social services. We do not have that many rich, everyone pay high tax. together.

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Yes I know high taxes ( the peoples money) have to be involved. As for the rich, they don't want to live under that. So naturally they leave and or do not do business there. It is nothing that has not been done before...

ralliann said:

Yes I know high taxes ( the peoples money) have to be involved. As for the rich, they don't want to live under that. So naturally they leave and or do not do business there. It is nothing that has not been done before...

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as long as taxation remains it circulates

Godcrazy said:

as long as taxation remains it circulates

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That is not what has happened in the past efforts that failed. But you are not all the way there yet.....

Hentenza said:

Today, most churches still do fairly well taking care of widows and the poor but as far as welcoming the stranger, some do much better than others.

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There can be "political" churches who make a big show of "my country over anyone else" > versus loving all as ourselves; however, there are the Christians with no reputation, doing good with anyone, ready for love with any person.

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

bèlla said:

The migrant issue has set this back irreparably.

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Our Apostle Paul made himself all things with all people, right? 1 Corinthians 9:19-23. But there were people who loved Paul less and less. But he did not let unloving ones decide what he did >

"And I will very gladly spend and be spent for your souls; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I am loved." (2 Corinthians 12:15)

So, no . . . I would say . . . the more in-your-face activist church culture is not going to decide how Jesus has us loving any and all people.

I can see that if Paul made himself all things to all people, this is my example: how I need to learn other languages so I can share with ones who might not now my first language. And . . . speaking about signs >

Which do you think would be more effective? >

I speak with the gift of tongues as a sign to people of another language.

Or, I take the time to learn, developing in caring and sharing relationships with ones while I learn their language.

Of course, one time I was talking with a woman in her county's national language, and she just kept tipping and turning her head; then I spoke something in what seemed like perfectly spoken words that I did not know; and then was when she asked how I spoke her language. Later, her daughter told me she understood only her local dialect. I do not know what I said to her!

Godcrazy said:

But I have seen it with my own eyes, and the moment I went down again and did not care of sins or got lax. Not the same power.

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My experience is I can just get into an argument, and already I am losing it. So, I need character in God's love so I stay how I need to be, all the time. And . . . about signs > ones can do signs and wonders but not have the character which we need to make us immune in God's almighty power to keep wrong emotions and thinking and feelings away from us . . . while this character of love has us relating the way God's word says.

So, signs have their humble place, while Jesus' character can have us humble in sharing with Jesus.

com7fy8 said:

There can be "political" churches who make a big show of "my country over anyone else" > versus loving all as ourselves; however, there are the Christians with no reputation, doing good with anyone, ready for love with any person.

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

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“Political churches” what are those? What are Christians with no reputation?

“And if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others? Even the Gentiles, do they not do the same? Therefore you shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭47‬-‭48‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

When shall we be perfect as God?

com7fy8 said:

I can see that if Paul made himself all things to all people, this is my example: how I need to learn other languages so I can share with ones who might not now my first language. And . . . speaking about signs >

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The caveat in your statement is I. If you feel compelled to learn another language to communicate or minister to foreigners that’s wonderful. But that isn’t a mandate for others to do the same. There are many ways the scripture can be applied and we must rely on the Holy Spirit’s counsel to select the appropriate course for ourselves.

com7fy8 said:

Which do you think would be more effective? >

I speak with the gift of tongues as a sign to people of another language.

Or, I take the time to learn, developing in caring and sharing relationships with ones while I learn their language.

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I think the most effective response is the one that utilizes your gifts and talents for your kingdom assignment. That is my priority and the lens I see my service on this plane. But others may think differently and that’s okay.

com7fy8 said:

My experience is I can just get into an argument, and already I am losing it. So, I need character in God's love so I stay how I need to be, all the time. And . . . about signs > ones can do signs and wonders but not have the character which we need to make us immune in God's almighty power to keep wrong emotions and thinking and feelings away from us . . . while this character of love has us relating the way God's word says.

So, signs have their humble place, while Jesus' character can have us humble in sharing with Jesus.

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In my experience most gifts have a shadow side which is not a reflection of error from the Lord. But the human element rearing its head as you’ve noted in your example. Early in my walk I studied many prominent leaders in the church from the past and present. I paid close attention to the ones who stumbled and looked for common denominators in their errors. It boiled down to five areas of attack the devil used to destroy them.

I saw a correlation in films with military engagements and noted their attacks and told myself that’s you. And the enemy was the army seeking the weak point in my structure. The point he could penetrate for entry. I started praying ardently afterward to build up my armor and the practice took me further than I’d imagine and helped me mature.

I think it’s important to understand your weak points and areas of susceptibility no matter what you’re doing. They’re the likely places where you’re going to stumble and its easy to miss. From my observation, signs and wonders often lends itself to expressions of ego and a need to be heard and followed. That’s what I’ve witnessed thus far and why I’m careful.

~bella