What do we do about the big, bad God of the Bible?

If a person, including yourself at this time, is in a middle of a tragedy it is not the right time to be philosophical about tragedies, since Loving, serving, helping listening and spending time with the person is what’s needed.

Everyone at some time in their life will ask: “How could a Loving God allow this (you fill in the tragedy) to happen?”

God realizes the need to address this question with the first man.

The story of Adam and Eve explains why we are in this messed up world situation, but it is not Adam and Eve’s fault:

1. God desires is that we all be in a Garden type situation, but God quenches His own desire to provide a better situation for us to fulfill our earthly objective.

2. Our earthly object is not to “worship God”, “to never/ever sin”, run around free, just don’t sin, or be good. God does not need anything from us, but is just trying to give something to us. God is trying to give us the greatest power in all universes; the power that compels God to do all He does, but that power cannot be forced on us (take it or I torture you) or can it be instinctive to man (robotically programmed in humans). It is a gift from God that is totally undeserved and unconditional (so it is Charity), but man has to accept the gift as it was given. Humans, instinctive to survival, (which is good for man to have) does not help an individual to want to take charity, especially if it comes at a huge cost to the giver.

3. The gift is Godly type Love which is best defined by Christ’s words and deeds. God will do all he can to help those that are willing to accept His help, fulfill their earthly objective of accepting His Love and growing that Love. Included in “all that God will do and allow to happen” are: Christ going to the cross, satan roaming the earth, sin, hell, death and tragedies of all kinds.

4. First off; death is the way good people get to go home and the way bad people stop doing bad stuff, so death is not “bad” in and of itself.

5. It is truly unfortunate and not God’s desire that tragedies have to occur. God has to quench His desire to allow tragedies, for man’s sake to help humans accept Love. People have to see, experience, witness, receive and/or even give Godly type Love, before they will ever understand and desire such a Love.

6. Everyone on earth is needy, because everyone has hurt others (sinned) and should feel the burden of the sin at least for a while. Their creator is trying to give them Love in the form of forgiveness so they will Love (the Bible and life teach us: “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”) If we realize and except forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt created by our sins, we will automatically receive an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love) that is truly ours.

7. There are a huge amount of sever tragedies in this world, but they are really opportunities for good people to show, give, experience, grow and witness Godly type Love. With all those tragedies some good people are still not responding, so are more needed? It is not our job to provide tragedies, but to solve, reduce, eliminate all we can, by allowing the Spirit to work through us.

8. Scripture tells us the needy will be with us always on this earth. Christ did not “heal” all those that were sick, but used those tragedies around Him to express Godly Love and show us how we are to handle tragedies (serve others with Love). Just healing everyone without the witness of Godly type Love being seen in serving individual like any other person would not get other people to accept God’s Love in faith and humility, but we could grow from the experience.

9. This world is not our Home and our rest comes later. It is both a privilege and Honor to allow the Holy Spirit to work through us in serving others in this world to best help everyone around us to accept God’s Love (fulfill their objective).

Back to Adam and Eve prior to their sinning, they had no reason to humble themselves to the point of accept pure undeserved charity, since they were deserving, but after sin they could easily be humble.

This messed up world (wars, famine, tragedies of all kind allow or even caused by God) is actually the very best place to help willing individuals fulfill their earthly objective.

We all look forward to being in heaven where there are no needy people, no sorrow, no death, and no sin.

This earth is not to be heaven, if we did not need this earth to be the way it is, we could all start out in heaven.

The same situation which strengths a person faith, will harden another person’s heart, so should God stop providing the message and/or the situation which will soften the accepting heart?

This world is full of tragedies, which can also be viewed as opportunities to help humans fulfill their earthly objective.

Looking at: Jesus’ explaining it in John 9: 1-7.

As he (Jesus) went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4 As long as it is day, we must do the works of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5 While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” 6 After saying this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man’s eyes. 7 “Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means “Sent”). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

In John 9: 1-7 you have a tragedy (the apostles are asking about a specific tragedy, but they do not know this individual and are thinking in general terms [you need to get into their head]).

Jesus does not say: “this tragedy was caused by: Adam/Eve sinning, Satan, sin, bad luck, God, free will or evil in the world (those have been our answers).”

Jesus does not say: “It was because of the bad that happened”, but does say: “This is for the good that can (and in this case will) happen.”

If you have lived for very long, you have seen good come from some tragedies, but why not all tragedies?

Is someone keeping good from coming from every tragedy?

Everything that is happening in the world right now (disease, natural disasters, and tragedies of all kinds) are not the result of the bad that has happened (or Adam and Eve), but is the result of the GOOD that can happen!

God is quenching His desire to have us all in a Garden type situation to help us fulfill our objective.

Everything starts and ends with the objective;



The objective of humans is to: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy and Love others.” The definition of “Love” is key for it is not instinctive or just emotional but it is Love of your enemies, described by Jesus’ life and Paul in 1 Cor. 13 and by John. It requires a free will moral decision to Love over likely alternatives (the perceived pleasures of sin for a season). The fall was tragic and not God’s desire, but may have been both inevitable and necessary. For all humans since the fall that have come to Love God started out by accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness.

Needy people create opportunities to experience, see, accept, express and receive Godly type Love. Everyone needs the full opportunity to accept Godly type Love which may have to be done when the person reaches the bottom like the prodigal son.

The innocent that died as the result of God’s action may not really suffer as far as we know.

There would have to be some benefit for humans to have faith that would help them fulfill their objective, over not needing faith, so what is the benefit?

1. We either have faith in self or we put our trust in God. Self-reliance has to do with our money, country, insurance, family, friends, achievements and pride, while reliance on God is just the opposite and requires putting self aside; going from being perceived independent to being dependent on God.

2. Faith in God is a humbling experience, because it is something that the lowliest person can do and actually maybe more likely to do. You are no better than the lowliest believing person when it comes to faith.

3. Believing God/trusting God comes out of an admitted need for help. We all need help all the time, but might not feel or admit that need strongly until in a tragedy and if we live long enough we will all experience tragedies. Turning to God is an easy act of humility (made easy by tragedies), and we need humility to accept charity. God’s forgiveness of our sins is an act of charity (grace/mercy/Love). “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” and thus fulfill our earthly objective by just accepting charity.

4. Faith can produce humility, and humility allows one to accept charity, and forgiveness is Charity and forgiveness produces Love.

Did Adam and Eve have faith? Did the Jews that crossed the Red Sea have faith? Is faith needed in heaven? Is our faith the determining factor to our salvation?

I like to use Luke 16: 19-31

Real or not, there are lots of rich people and people like Lazarus.

Why does Lazarus have such a tragic life and where is this Loving God?

God Loves the rich man just as much as He Love Lazarus, so God is providing the very best opportunity for the rich man to fulfill his earthly objective everyday with Lazarus at his feet every day. Unfortunately the rich man never helps Lazarus and thus obtain Godly type Love, which he obviously did not want or like, so the rich man would not be happy in heaven where there is only Godly type Love.

It is crucial to understand the God of the OT in context, otherwise he will indeed be perceived as a oriental despot and we end up e.g. with the anti-semitism of someone like Marcion.

Thinkers like Feuerbach suggest that images of a “tyrant God” reflect human projections of fear, power, and authority structures.

However are we supposed to judge the texts by modern standards, or try to hear them as Israel did?

For Israel, God’s severity was never arbitrary power.

It was His holiness — His refusal to let evil go unchecked, His passion that injustice not devour creation.

The same God who judged also delivered, fed manna in the wilderness, forgave again and again.

And - scripture is not a single voice.

It is a long wrestling match with the divine.

The prophets themselves accused God, cried out: “Why do the wicked prosper?” (Jer. 12:1).

Job demanded an answer and received not a tyrant’s sneer, but a whirlwind of mystery.

These texts don’t invite us to bow before raw power.

They dare us to enter Israel’s struggle with God — sometimes trembling, sometimes accusing, but never indifferent.

And when Christians look through the lens of Christ, we see the one who reveals the Father as merciful, who lets Himself be struck, mocked, and crucified rather than act as a tyrant.

The God who seemed a despot in shadows is unveiled in weakness and self-giving love.

The language of the OT is the language of awe, fear, and judgment from an ancient people learning who God is.

It can sound tyrannical to modern ears. But it’s also the language of a God who will not compromise with evil, who says “No” so that a greater “Yes” might one day be spoken.

Colo Millz said:

It is crucial to understand the God of the OT in context, otherwise he will indeed be perceived as a oriental despot and we end up e.g. with the anti-semitism of someone like Marcion.
Thinkers like Feuerbach suggest that images of a “tyrant God” reflect human projections of fear, power, and authority structures.
However are we supposed to judge the texts by modern standards, or try to hear them as Israel did?
For Israel, God’s severity was never arbitrary power.
It was His holiness — His refusal to let evil go unchecked, His passion that injustice not devour creation.

The same God who judged also delivered, fed manna in the wilderness, forgave again and again.

And - scripture is not a single voice.

It is a long wrestling match with the divine.

The prophets themselves accused God, cried out: “Why do the wicked prosper?” (Jer. 12:1).

Job demanded an answer and received not a tyrant’s sneer, but a whirlwind of mystery.

These texts don’t invite us to bow before raw power.

They dare us to enter Israel’s struggle with God — sometimes trembling, sometimes accusing, but never indifferent.

And when Christians look through the lens of Christ, we see the one who reveals the Father as merciful, who lets Himself be struck, mocked, and crucified rather than act as a tyrant.

The God who seemed a despot in shadows is unveiled in weakness and self-giving love.

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I think the Biblical presentation is more powerful and meaningful.

The all just God who required the satisfaction of justice for sin,
himself in love satisfied his own justice for the sin of his beloved.

Colo Millz said:

The language of the OT is the language of awe, fear, and judgment from an ancient people learning who God is.
It can sound tyrannical to modern ears. But it’s also the language of a God who will not compromise with evil, who says “No” so that a greater “Yes” might one day be spoken.

Click to expand...

I've always been more partial to Gregory of Nyssa's fish-hook and such rather than an offering made to the Father.

But that's OT, some other time.

Colo Millz said:

I've always been more partial to Gregory of Nyssa's fish-hook and such rather than an offering made to the Father.

But that's OT, some other time.

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Thinking that his wisdom cannot be improved upon, I am always partial to the way God presents things in his word written (2 Tim 3:16).

Perhaps we should start another thread then to let the OP remain OT

Colo Millz said:

Perhaps we should start another thread then to let the OP remain OT

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The NT quote was to establish the principle of the basis of the OT discussion, not to engage in a NT discussion.

Let the OT discussion continue.