Does "equality" even matter to Jesus?

joechristianwarrior said:

I am curious to hear you guys' thoughts on the issue of "equality", and whether it even matters to Jesus. I've heard many on the political left argue that it does, though I've heard many others (usually on the political right!) say it doesn't matter, that it's all just "woke" and "Marxism"; and that the only justice important to Christians is that we'll see when Jesus returns.

What do you guys think? I'd encourage everyone to check out this 4-minute video before you reply, as I think it sets good context for some of the dilemma I'm trying to get at with my question. And then let me know what you think, thanks:

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' Equality' needs to be clarified, objectively speaking. But for me, the sentiment of Love your neighbor as yourself would infer equality. Another thought that comes to mind is that Jesus said to sell all your possessions and give to the poor and you will have riches in heaven.

joechristianwarrior said:

I am curious to hear you guys' thoughts on the issue of "equality", and whether it even matters to Jesus. I've heard many on the political left argue that it does, though I've heard many others (usually on the political right!) say it doesn't matter, that it's all just "woke" and "Marxism"; and that the only justice important to Christians is that we'll see when Jesus returns.

What do you guys think? I'd encourage everyone to check out this 4-minute video before you reply, as I think it sets good context for some of the dilemma I'm trying to get at with my question. And then let me know what you think, thanks:

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Great video. I agree with what it says about equality, and I don't know why anyone would disagree. But I am sure some posters will clarify.

The video overlooks one important fact. All in the Kingdom must follow the Will of the Father. That is where they are equal. This vid smacks of still wanting to make it about us and seeking justification for being who we are as humans, which does not follow the will of the Father. Love all as self yes, but let each other be who they want to be, no. The whole idea is to reject who we are as humans in being self-centred and learn to be servants to both God and each other in need of basics such as food, clothing and shelter (social justice), not enablers..

Ezekiel 18 comes to mind whenever people talk about equal oriented things.

So God sees equality as applying the same standard of assessment to all people.

When people talk about giving allowances to people based on them being weaker, poorer, or of a lower social class, this is called Grace. Paul even said, when I am weak He (God) is strong, and I will boast of my weaknesses so Christ's power will rest on me.

In a sense, we treat others in the same way God treats us.

God shows His strength through our weaknesses, and the way we treat the least of humanity is how God regards us treating Him.

So it would be fair to say that social justice does matter to God.

Countries that embrace equality are dying.

The Tower of Babel was about equality. They made bricks (everybody equal) out of stones (everybody unequal) in order to build a city and a tower.

This come from the oral Torah.

Bricks or Stones? - YouTube

Key Points from "Bricks or Stones?"

1. Biblical Illiteracy in Modern Times:
   • Rabbi Daniel Lapin highlights that many educated people today are biblically illiterate, unaware of the foundational stories like the Tower of Babel, which underpin Western civilization.
2. The Tower of Babel Story:
   • Nimrod, identified as a "hunter" of people (not animals), seeks to control and unify society by turning individuals into uniform "bricks" rather than unique "stones."
   • The story, from Genesis 11, illustrates humanity’s susceptibility to becoming enslaved under centralized control.
3. Bricks vs. Stones Metaphor:
   • Bricks: Represent uniformity, interchangeability, and man-made conformity, stripping away individuality.
   • Stones: Symbolize unique, God-created individuals, each with distinct purpose and value, as emphasized in biblical tradition (e.g., altars to God must be made of stones, not bricks).
4. Nimrod’s Strategy:
   • Nimrod’s plan begins with making bricks (uniform people) before building a city and tower, symbolizing centralized power and control.
   • He erases religion, promoting a secular, materialistic society to replace spiritual unity with materialism as the "mortar" that binds people.
5. Materialism as Mortar:
   • The Hebrew word for "mortar" is linked to "materialism," indicating that tyrants unify people through consumerism and debt, replacing spiritual or historical bonds with material desires.
6. Historical and Modern Parallels:
   • The Babel blueprint reflects recurring attempts at centralized control, seen in historical events like the French Revolution and modern pushes for global governance (e.g., the EU).
   • The EU Parliament building’s design resembles artistic depictions of the Tower of Babel, raising questions about intentional symbolism of unified control and diminished individuality.
7. God’s Response:
   • Contrary to common interpretations, God does not punish the people in the Babel story. Using His merciful name in the Hebrew text, He scatters them and confuses their language to restore their individuality (turning them back into "stones").
   • This act opposes the "one world" vision of centralized control, aligning with the Abrahamic model of individual independence and accountability to God.
8. Contemporary Relevance:
   • Modern trends like uniform housing, public transport over personal vehicles, and centralized governance (e.g., reducing states’ rights) echo the Babel blueprint of turning people into "bricks."
   • Materialism (e.g., brand logos like Nike, Mercedes-Benz) replaces shared history or spiritual values as society’s unifying force.
9. Call to Action:
   • The speaker urges rejecting materialism by downsizing, selling unused possessions (e.g., via Illar.com), and donating proceeds to meaningful causes.
   • Emphasizes preparing for economic challenges (e.g., rising cotton prices, clothing costs) by avoiding debt and focusing on self-sufficiency (e.g., food storage).
   • Encourages embracing individuality ("stones") over conformity ("bricks") and trusting in God, not human authority, to resist tyranny and change the world.
10. Hopeful Message:
    • The Tower of Babel story offers a warning but also hope, showing that God supports individual freedom and diversity over oppressive uniformity, a model embraced by America’s founders.

Matt5 said:

Countries that embrace equality are dying.

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Evidence? (Anticipatory note: mere assertions do not count as evidence.)

Biblically speaking, equity > equality. Equality is good, not poo-pooing it. But equity, wherein there is commensurate justice is something the Bible, and Jesus, emphasize a great deal.

For example in the famous story where two women came to King Solomon with both claiming a baby belonged to them, Solomon declared to cut the infant in two and give each woman half (that's equal), but equity is that the child return to the mother which is what ultimately happens.

A law which says that each person must pay 10k yearly in taxes is certainly equal; but for a struggling working single mother working three jobs just to keep the lights on, it is almost her everything but for the billionaire it's not even a drop in the bucket.

Equality and equity are necessary for a flourishing just society.

-CryptoLutheran

joechristianwarrior said:

I am curious to hear you guys' thoughts on the issue of "equality", and whether it even matters to Jesus. I've heard many on the political left argue that it does, though I've heard many others (usually on the political right!) say it doesn't matter, that it's all just "woke" and "Marxism"; and that the only justice important to Christians is that we'll see when Jesus returns.

What do you guys think? I'd encourage everyone to check out this 4-minute video before you reply, as I think it sets good context for some of the dilemma I'm trying to get at with my question. And then let me know what you think, thanks:

Click to expand...

Proverbs expressly tells us that some will come to poverty.

Proverbs 12:11 (NASB)
11 He who tills his land will have plenty of bread, But he who pursues worthless things lacks sense.

Proverbs 6:9-11 (KJV)
9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?
10 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:
11 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth, and thy want as an armed man.

Proverbs 19:14-15 (KJV)
14 House and riches are the inheritance of fathers: and a prudent wife is from the LORD.
15 Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger.

Proverbs 13:22 (KJV)
22 A good man leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just.

God never endorses socialism.communism /outside the context of Christianity. Few might know this but Charles Parnham and the students in Topeka , Kansas first pooled their possessions. They then sought God very heavily. One of the results was that the Holy Spirit came and they got baptized in the Spirit. It was that baptism that then went to the Azuza street revival where many Pentecostal denominations were born.

Outside of Christianity, giving your possessions to a group like the UN, might help some, but God does not get the glory. Giving extra to government I would argue takes away his glory because most governments do not recognize the involvement of God. Many in fact are opposed to God especially those that are the least capitalist.

The poor you will always have with you. Satan's kingdom insures that there will be poverty. That is part of the fallen state of the world. God can help Christians from poverty, though he never promises all millions of dollars, and at times some are pressed into tough conditions.

So equality nope, In Heaven there are better rewards for some Christians versus others based on what they do on earth. Mostly in America we try to believe in equality in opportunity, but not in equality in wealth or income. God gifts differently too, and you have to roll with that. One got 10 talents, another 5, another 2. God responds to faith as well. If you want to believe you will always will be poor, confess it and think it, you probably will have it. IF you believe that God blesses, then there too are conditional promises that can apply to your life. Here is one example.

Mark 10:29-31 (KJV)
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

I am a strong believer in the notion of a reversal of fortune. It occurs when someone ties themselves to God. That the humble will be exalted. That the high will be brought low. But in context, those high are the ones that are not following God. This occurred with Eli's family who were judged. It occurred from low to high with hannah who petitioned for a child and it occurred with Mary who had Jesus.

But sorry no full on equality in wealth except in a Christian only context like occurred in Acts. Still, those who give sparingly will reap sparingly, those who give abundantly will reap abundantly.

There is equality in God's eyes for believers, Goal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

joechristianwarrior said:

Did you feel the same way?

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I got the impression that their idea of equality was more a case on accepting all types in an equal footing, Ulterior motive

joechristianwarrior said:

Yeah, I'm not sure if you watched all the video, but it made the point (at the end!) about how we treat the *least* being significant...

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Yes, the focus was on Love in scripture, it wasn't bad .. but because of movements like Jim Jones in the past a lot of US Christians get wary when people preach about "love' as the core thing.

Doesn't affect me, (not from the US) just something I noticed.

joechristianwarrior said:

I am curious to hear you guys' thoughts on the issue of "equality", and whether it even matters to Jesus. I've heard many on the political left argue that it does, though I've heard many others (usually on the political right!) say it doesn't matter, that it's all just "woke" and "Marxism"; and that the only justice important to Christians is that we'll see when Jesus returns.

What do you guys think? I'd encourage everyone to check out this 4-minute video before you reply, as I think it sets good context for some of the dilemma I'm trying to get at with my question. And then let me know what you think, thanks:

Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of Marxism or of any form of Communism, and I don't think either Jesus or the apostle Paul would have been either.

However, we might be tempted to infer that Paul (and likewise Jesus) had some interest in the sort of financial equality that a willingness to voluntarily share with others can bring when funds run dry for basic human goods. At least this was advocated by Paul among those who consider themselves to be Christian.

2 Corinthians 8:13-15​

For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened; but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack, that their abundance also may supply your lack—that there may be equality. As it is written, “He who gathered much had nothing left over, and he who gathered little had no lack.​

Then there was that bit where Jesus said that we should be feeding and clothing those who have none of these things, and to do it in 'His Name.'

I see several Old Covenant quotations trotted out in opposition to "equality". After all, Proverbs is the Old Covenant, and the Old Covenant is the Law of Death. Okay, if you wish to live under the Law of Death, you are free to do so.
When I think of matters like poverty, I remember what the Lord said:
"'Depart from me, you who are cursed into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a strange I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They will also answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison and did not help you?' He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'"

When I think of "equality", I don't think of it in terms of physical comfort. I think of it in terms of how we treat others, Do we favor or disfavor people on bases other than their conduct? Are we "respecters of persons" or do we treat all with equanimity?

We are to act in servitude, not only to the Father, but all in need, including enemies, treating each other equally in times of need. This without holding it over them, expecting return or even demanding they hear what we have to say.

joechristianwarrior said:

I am curious to hear you guys' thoughts on the issue of "equality", and whether it even matters to Jesus. I've heard many on the political left argue that it does, though I've heard many others (usually on the political right!) say it doesn't matter, that it's all just "woke" and "Marxism"; and that the only justice important to Christians is that we'll see when Jesus returns.

What do you guys think? I'd encourage everyone to check out this 4-minute video before you reply, as I think it sets good context for some of the dilemma I'm trying to get at with my question. And then let me know what you think, thanks:

Click to expand...

Your question... Does political equality matter to The 'Son' of God?

Remember what He replied when the question of paying 'tribute' monies was presented to Him?

Mark 12:17 "And (J)esus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."

Although your question is not about political equality, nonetheless, it is within 'equality'...


Matthew 14: "...This is a desert place, and the time is now past; send the multitude away, that they may go into the villages, and buy themselves victuals. 16But (J)esus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat. 17And they say unto him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes. 18He said, Bring them hither to me. 19And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude. 20And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full. 21And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children."


From this standpoint, can equality refer better to eating and housing and not so much about personal preferences? But seeing how they didn't have multi unit condos then, housing might not have been within the equality concern..

2PhiloVoid said:

However, we might be tempted to infer that Paul (and likewise Jesus) had some interest in the sort of financial equality that a willingness to voluntarily share with others can bring when funds run dry for basic human goods. At least this was advocated by Paul among those who consider themselves to be Christian.

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This is going to be an interesting concept in the near future. I’m witnessing a different phenomenon on social media in relation to financial inequality. It’s becoming increasingly acceptable to have differences and the well heeled are being celebrated. We see this with the emergence of richtok which is a sub forum within the platform devoted to content by wealthy creators. A new slogan has arisen as a result which the users deem as ”rich done right”.

We’re not talking about the luxuries we saw back in the day. Those pale in comparison. We’re seeing high jewelry on display which even surprised yours truly. That’s usually the domain for red carpets and black tie events and often requires security to wear in public. Not to be outdone by this we’re taken along to private events sponsored by heritage brands that demand a comparable spending level for invitation. Usually seven figures or more.

I saw us heading in this direction during the pandemic and always felt the quiet luxury trend “wealth whispers” was a precursor for what we are. You’ll be hard pressed to be on any platform without encountering a reference to old money. Are we breeding pseudo elitists or apologists for rulership or a bit of both? You be the judge. ;-)

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7499630350679805227
~bella