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Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

Aldebaran

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Reject smart things because later on people might do dumb things?
Registration of a possession that many in government have voiced a desire to take away from you isn't a smart thing, just as leaving your front door unlocked at night and then advertising it isn't a smart thing--and for the same reason.
 
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durangodawood

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Which laws being proposed would lead to gun confiscation? Were assault-style weapons confiscated during the federal ban that was enacted in the 90s? Have any states that have assault-style weapons bans in effect today confiscated them?
Gun argument tactic #1: trot out the most extreme proposal as the only possible proposal.
 
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Aldebaran

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Which laws being proposed would lead to gun confiscation? Were assault-style weapons confiscated during the federal ban that was enacted in the 90s? Have any states that have assault-style weapons bans in effect today confiscated them?
A ban on future purchases isn't a confiscation of currently-owned ones. Registration is what leads to confiscation.
 
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Aldebaran

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Gun argument tactic #1: trot out the most extreme proposal as the only possible proposal.
I only addressed the proposal he/she made themselves.
And yes, I agree it is pretty extreme. That's why lawful gun owners have always opposed it.
 
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Vambram

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Meanwhile, there are completely tone deaf people supporters of transgenderism protesting the Vice President's visit in Minneapolis.
With a pride flag? That’s so ridiculous. VP Vance is there to support the victims and their families.

SMH
 
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rjs330

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One would expect. But non-gang gun violence is sufficient to get people in this country say they are very upset. But its a tolerable level of upset, obviously.

Gang violence is "bad" in the abstract, but off the radar so long as its not my neighborhood.
I found another answer. Make it illegal for gang members to have guns.

1. Make it illegal for those with mental health issues to have guns.
2. Make it illegal for gang members to have guns.

Gun deaths would plummet.
 
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Landon Caeli

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I found another answer. Make it illegal for gang members to have guns.

1. Make it illegal for those with mental health issues to have guns.
2. Make it illegal for gang members to have guns.

Gun deaths would plummet.

That could be done. If someone is arrested, the police are very much aware of their gang affiliation. All that needs to be done is have that information remain permanently on their file, even if the charges are dropped.

...That would be very helpful for the country, keeping guns out of the hands of thugs.
 
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rjs330

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That could be done. If someone is arrested, the police are very much aware of their gang affiliation. All that needs to be done is have that information remain permanently on their file, even if the charges are dropped.

...That would be very helpful for the country, keeping guns out of the hands of thugs.
Yup, if you are a gang member you are a criminal thug. Everytime you fet hit up and found to be a gang member you go in a data base and cannot purchase or carry a firearm. If you are caught, minimum 10 years in prison. No parole.
 
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Landon Caeli

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Yup, if you are a gang member you are a criminal thug. Everytime you fet hit up and found to be a gang member you go in a data base and cannot purchase or carry a firearm. If you are caught, minimum 10 years in prison. No parole.
I like that.
 
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JosephZ

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Meanwhile, there are completely tone deaf people supporters of transgenderism protesting the Vice President's visit in Minneapolis.
With a pride flag? That’s so ridiculous. VP Vance is there to support the victims and their families.
Some of those protesting were family members of the victims.

Some family and neighbors gathered nearby as the Vances arrived at the church, holding signs calling for bans on assault weapons. One read, “Pro-Life = Pro-Gun Safety.” Another referred to comments by Pope Leo on Sunday, “Listen to the Pope, End the Pandemic of Arms.”

“It keeps happening over and over and over, and nothing changes,” said Kacie Sharpe. Her 8-year-old son, Trip, considered Fletcher his best friend, and was sitting nearby when he was shot and killed. “And it’s the most helpless feeling in the world to know that you can’t send your kids to school and have them be safe.”


...mother Leah Kaiser cited a proverb quoted by Principal Matthew DeBoer and many others in the days since the shootings, “When you pray, move your feet.” It’s an expression of the idea that thoughts and prayers are not enough.

"Vice President Vance, you have enormous authority,” she continued. “Please use this moment to move your feet and transcend our political divides to promote peace and unity and hope. This is what the people of the United States will hold you accountable to.”
 
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durangodawood

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I found another answer. Make it illegal for gang members to have guns.

1. Make it illegal for those with mental health issues to have guns.
2. Make it illegal for gang members to have guns.

Gun deaths would plummet.
I dont think so. Guns are so easy to get illegally that it wouldn't make a difference. Change that, and it would help.
 
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Vambram

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Some of those protesting were family members of the victims.

Some family and neighbors gathered nearby as the Vances arrived at the church, holding signs calling for bans on assault weapons. One read, “Pro-Life = Pro-Gun Safety.” Another referred to comments by Pope Leo on Sunday, “Listen to the Pope, End the Pandemic of Arms.”

“It keeps happening over and over and over, and nothing changes,” said Kacie Sharpe. Her 8-year-old son, Trip, considered Fletcher his best friend, and was sitting nearby when he was shot and killed. “And it’s the most helpless feeling in the world to know that you can’t send your kids to school and have them be safe.”


...mother Leah Kaiser cited a proverb quoted by Principal Matthew DeBoer and many others in the days since the shootings, “When you pray, move your feet.” It’s an expression of the idea that thoughts and prayers are not enough.

"Vice President Vance, you have enormous authority,” she continued. “Please use this moment to move your feet and transcend our political divides to promote peace and unity and hope. This is what the people of the United States will hold you accountable to.”
After reading that article, the parents whom were quoted were the ones whom Vance listened to and spoke with at the hospital. The parents of the victims were not part of the protests supporting transgenderism.
 
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JosephZ

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After reading that article, the parents whom were quoted were the ones whom Vance listened to and spoke with at the hospital. The parents of the victims were not part of the protests supporting transgenderism.
This article is a little clearer.

Protesters gather as calls for gun control grow

Several people gathered near Annunciation during the vice presidential visit, many with signs calling for more common sense gun restrictions.

One of them was Kacie Sharpe, a mother who said her son was inside the church during the attack. Sharpe and her family are mourning the loss of Merkel.

"He misses his best friend. Fletcher was such a sweet kid and he was such a good friend and we loved him dearly," Sharpe said.

Sharpe is now asking the vice president to make a change.

"Something has to be done, and I would beg him please, please do something, anything," she said. "And one thing that can be done is banning these weapons."
 
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RileyG

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I dont think so. Guns are so easy to get illegally that it wouldn't make a difference. Change that, and it would help.
I wish I knew the answer :(
 
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rjs330

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I dont think so. Guns are so easy to get illegally that it wouldn't make a difference. Change that, and it would help.
If illegal guns are so easy to obtain, why are you for banning some. If you aee passing laws to make it illegal to have certain guns aren't you doing the same thing? Won't criminals just be able to obtain them anyway?
 

Vambram

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This article is a little clearer.

Protesters gather as calls for gun control grow

Several people gathered near Annunciation during the vice presidential visit, many with signs calling for more common sense gun restrictions.

One of them was Kacie Sharpe, a mother who said her son was inside the church during the attack. Sharpe and her family are mourning the loss of Merkel.

"He misses his best friend. Fletcher was such a sweet kid and he was such a good friend and we loved him dearly," Sharpe said.

Sharpe is now asking the vice president to make a change.

"Something has to be done, and I would beg him please, please do something, anything," she said. "And one thing that can be done is banning these weapons."
Like I have said, the tone deaf protesters were the ones pushing the transgender agenda. I did NOT say that all those protesters were doing that.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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So basically, you want to toss 3 of the 12 countries that don't conform to the narrative, and replace them with 3 others that do?

Or is is something else you're asking?
Is this what you did? What were your a priori reasoning for choosing those specific 12 countries? I just wanted to point out that the results are sensitive to what countries are included. Thus you need to explicitly argue for any inclusions/exlusions or test them all or test permutations of different 12 countries (if that number is important for you). If you do that I think you're going to realize that there obviously is other factors that impact homicide rates, and perhaps a more complex model is called for.

Part of it seems as if we're using different sources and different definitions.

It looks like the source AI pulled back for me for Sweden is from 2017 (one may wonder how criminal gangs exploded so much over a period of 7 years in a place like Sweden)

Another thing, if you're including associates, we'd have to do that for all of the other nations' gang membership numbers as well. As you'll notice, by including associates -- taking the number from 14000 to 62000 is no trivial change to the final "per 100k" number.

The same would be true for the gangs here in the US. They have their "official" members, but then someone like a small-time drug dealer who buys from them or a GF of a member who hides some money in her account for them would be considered "an associate" despite not necessarily being the type of person who would be contributing to street violence.

If you present a graph where the lowest point is higher than all but 3 of your datapoints (the average homicide rate in your 12 countries is 8.3), you should have stopped and made sure you knew what you did. There's no conflict between reducing guns and reducing gang membership. Everybody understands that more gang members increase the risk for many types of criminality including homicide. As long as due process is awarded(?), I would be surprised if someone said that they didn't want to reduce gang membership. Perhaps that is why it is not discussed as much as reducing access to guns?
 
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JosephZ

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Like I have said, the tone deaf protesters were the ones pushing the transgender agenda. I did NOT say that all those protesters were doing that.
You're going to see what you want to see.
 
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