Are we spiritual beings or just spiritually minded and/or spiritually filled?

johansen · Wednesday at 6:16 PM

timothyu said:
God. God works though us His dust formed entity. He is the spirit. When we became self-aware we shut off the conduit that allowed Him to work through us and took control ourselves. We became adversarial spirits and of no use to God. We can repent/change and reverse that misdeed thankfully. In that way our data we accumulate in life/animation which we assume is our identity but actually is the motivation behind our self-imposed identity, if useful and worthy, will be used to form a new being in the Kingdom to come. Kind of like the stuff saved on servers. The dust remains dust and was never a part of who or what we are.
.

this seems very weird to me.

like you're saying the original sin is self awareness. i don't believe that.

timothyu · Wednesday at 8:15 PM

Grafted In said:
Can you provide more Scripture. I believe you are wrong.

This scripture talks directly. How many ways does it need be said? Jesus died to bring about the Kingdom. It's about them. We are secondary, but in out arrogance like to make everything about us.

timothyu · Wednesday at 8:16 PM

johansen said:
like you're saying the original sin is self awareness. i don't believe that.

The original sin was putting our will ahead of the will of God, thus learning self-awareness as a result. Sin to this day is the result of putting our will ahead of God and others.

timothyu · Wednesday at 8:19 PM

Grafted In said:
That aint the position of a casual onlooker

Of course not. We need to prove worthy to attend , especially to be in the Kingdom and governed by it, children of the Kingdom. It requires a change of heart from our self-serving selfish ways. Jesus is our lord and King, not our mate. We are not the Kingdom for that is the rule/governance/leadership of the Father.

Steve D 2407 · Wednesday at 9:01 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Are you speaking of soul sleep?

Soul sleep may be a final result or natural conclusion of what I am asking. The real question I am asking is, what most people are taught, even from an early age, that when we are conceived/born/come into existance, do we possess a spiritual entity that people generalise as being a 'soul'? Adam, being the first created human, consists of dust and God's life giving breath, which made him and the rest of the human race, living beings. However, everyone appears to believe we became or obtained a soul/spirit as well. Through all of the bible verses I have mentioned, I do not believe we have a personal individual spirit of our own. We can be spiritually minded, spiritually motivated, be spiritually filled by the Holy Spirit or worse, possessed by an evil spirit, but we are not spiritual beings until Jesus returns. We will be changed in a twinkling of an eye.

Maria Billingsley · Thursday at 7:03 AM

Steve D 2407 said:
Soul sleep may be a final result or natural conclusion of what I am asking. The real question I am asking is, what most people are taught, even from an early age, that when we are conceived/born/come into existance, do we possess a spiritual entity that people generalise as being a 'soul'? Adam, being the first created human, consists of dust and God's life giving breath, which made him and the rest of the human race, living beings. However, everyone appears to believe we became or obtained a soul/spirit as well. Through all of the bible verses I have mentioned, I do not believe we have a personal individual spirit of our own. We can be spiritually minded, spiritually motivated, be spiritually filled by the Holy Spirit or worse, possessed by an evil spirit, but we are not spiritual beings until Jesus returns. We will be changed in a twinkling of an eye.

Well, I believe you are missing a very important fact, the union between His Holy Spirit and our spirit. This is the very definition of conversion. If we were not born with the spiritual capacity to join His Spirit there would be no salvation. In fact, Jesus Christ of Nazareth told us that He needed to depart (ascend) in order for His Holy Spirit ( the Helper and Comforter) to decend in the believer for a final union of regeneration. This connection can not happen without an equal point of access. The flesh is corrupt. There is also scripture backing this up.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

1 Corinthians 6:17
"But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit."

I John 3:6,
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit,"

John 14:17 says, "He dwells with you and will be in you,"

Soul sleep is a theological viewpoint shared by a fringe Christian group, Jehovah's Witnesses so its validity is a bit sketchy at best.

Please reconsider your views.

Blessings

Grafted In · Thursday at 9:50 AM

timothyu said:
No

Bride and husband. Kingdom and Jesus
Rev21: 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Are you using Kingdom' and 'New Jerusalem' interchangeably?

timothyu · Thursday at 11:27 AM

Grafted In said:
Are you using Kingdom' and 'New Jerusalem' interchangeably?

You mean the capital of the Kingdom where Jesus and the Father will reside??

Grafted In · Thursday at 11:36 AM

timothyu said:
You mean the capital of the Kingdom where Jesus and the Father will reside??

Reread your own words in post 47.
You use them interchangeably.

timothyu · Thursday at 11:47 AM

Grafted In said:
You use them interchangeably.

And you are saying they are not of the Kingdom?

Grafted In · Thursday at 11:49 AM

timothyu said:
And you are saying they are not of the Kingdom?

A garage is not a car.

timothyu · Thursday at 11:52 AM

Grafted In said:
A garage is not a car.

Not in outlook no. But the Kingdom/Will of God is all. It is what Jesus represents. Humans are told to be servants to God and each other. Nothing about partnership in governance.

Grafted In · Thursday at 5:38 PM

Perhaps you're right.
Please provide me with additional Scripture that proves that the church is not the Bride of Christ. I'll look deeper and consider your beliefs.
And, no, I am not saying they are not part of the Kingdom.

Grafted In · Thursday at 5:40 PM

Was a post of mine deleted?

Perhaps others will offer their views on this subject.

com7fy8 · Friday at 11:42 AM

About if we have a spirit > 1 Peter 3:4 says >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

I would say we could not have "a gentle and quiet spirit" unless we have a spiritual level of existence which can be gentle and quiet "in the sight of God".

Also, we have 1 Corinthians 6:17 >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

If we who are Jesus Christ's people do not have our spiritual level of existence, how can each of us be "one spirit with Him"? This does not say "one flesh", or one union of our flesh with God's Spirit. Our spiritual level is where we can share with the Holy Spirit in union with Him. And we have Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, God is sharing His own love with us, "in our hearts". This does not mean our physical hearts which are flesh, I would offer. We have our spiritual hearts where we have desires and preferences and spiritual union with God Himself.

Or, someone can be affected by Satan's evil spirit with his emotions and feelings > there is >

"the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," our Apostle Paul does say, in Ephesians 2:2. And this spirit can affect us spiritually with emotions and desires and drives and preferences which are deeper than just physical. They are not in our physical hearts!!

In our spirit, then, we are sharing with either God's Holy Spirit of His love . . . or with Satan and his selfish spirit.

timothyu · Friday at 11:56 AM

com7fy8 said:
In our spirit, then, we are sharing with either God's Holy Spirit of His love . . . or with Satan and his selfish spirit.

As we learned in the Garden, good and evil existed side by side within the spirit of God, of which we are a part (otherwise, the tree wouldn't have even been there). Our choice now is which nature we follow, the one which is servitude to God and each other in need, or evil which is self-centred. It was never a problem when we were unaware of the choice pre-fall as we couldn't be purposely selfish, simply because we were not self-aware.

johansen · Friday at 12:16 PM

com7fy8 said:
About if we have a spirit > 1 Peter 3:4 says >

Spirit is a generic term for the characteristics of a person. Demons are in general called spirits of "insert intense emotion or desire here" rage jealousy envy etc

We have to be careful to interpret it correctly. So for example, when God puts a new spirit in us when we are born again as described in exekiel 35 to 38..

Where does the old spirit go? Is it destroyed in hell?

Obviously not.

eleos1954 · Saturday at 2:04 PM

Steve D 2407 said:
All my life as a Christian, having been brought up predominately in a Baptist church, I was taught that humans are not just physical but also have a spiritual entity that can continue to live beyond our phyisical death. However, recent study of the Bible teaches me that this is untrue.

I believe that we have been interpreting and using the word spirit as if that word means the same thing of given the same classification.

The bible does tell us, and I am sure most will agree that God is spirit. I also believe God exists as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Other created spiritual beings are the angels, both holy and fallen angels, including Lucifer, plus the Beasts mentioned in Revalation.

Now, when it comes to humans, Adam being the first created human, the bible states Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. This verse is plain and simple stating the two ingredients of which humans are made/created. What we are told by bible teachers that this verse is saying we received a 'soul' or 'a spiritual entity' that now never dies. Why do they interpret that the breath of life or spirit of God that makes us alive as being an actual spiritual entity? God clearly states to Adam that due to his disobedience to God, that Adam would, Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. While we are alive, Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. This clearly says that the spirit of God is the breath of life that sustains us as living human beings, not a separate spiritual being!

The bible does teach us that we (believers) will become spiritual beings in the future as Christ did after he died on the cross as a human being. The Son of God became a sinless human being through the union of the seed of Mary and the Holy Spirit. Jesus lived in complete dependence on the Father, Greek term Kenosis. Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:. Jesus emptied himself, however not completely cut off from divine knowledge. Jesus still read peoples thoughts and performed miracles, through the will of the Father. John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

When we read the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 15, Paul fully explains the resurrection. Yet most Christians use, misquote and take out of context, 2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord., to explain away every other verse and the entire chapter Paul wrote on the resurrection. I would describe 2 Cor 5:8 in this way... Imagine you have a wonderful holiday booked in a month's time, however you are still stuck at your mundane job. You could quite easily think, 'Oh, how I would rather be enjoying that holiday now rather than being here at work!' It will happen, but I still have work to do first. Yes, we would rather be in heaven with Christ, however we still have many 'not yet Christians' to show them who Jesus is, the way, the truth and the life.

! Cor 15:
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Cor 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

When did Jesus rise from the dead and become a spiritual being after living on earth? On the first day of the week, the third day after he died on the cross.
When did he return to God the Father? John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
When do believers become spiritual beings and go to heaven? 1 Cor 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
What does Job say about what happens when we die? Job14:
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Where is the theif on the cross? According to Job, awaiting until his change comes. 1 Cor 15:
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Please explain how any of these bible verses mean anything different? All die and do not awaken until, first the believers, when Jesus returns at the second coming and then non-believers after satan is released after the 1000 year period.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Many try to use other verses to contradict the verses mentioned above. We know the Gods word is all truth. Man chooses to interpret to suit what he believes is the truth. I want people to explain each or any of these verses to mean something else that what they appear to say quite plainly.

The bible only mentions, besides Jesus, three humans that were treated differently before death or at death. Enoch, Elijah and Moses. What is the purpose of the Book of Life? Is it to record the names of the faithful? God told Adam and Eve you shall surely die. Satan alluded to Eve that she wouldn't die. I believe all believers go to heaven at the same time. Not before Christ returns. What do you believe the bible teaches? Not what man teaches; what does the Word of God tell us?

We are not immortal in any way .... we receive immortality when Jesus returns .... we do not have a "immortal soul"

I believe all believers go to heaven at the same time. Not before Christ returns

This is true ... happens at the First resurrection .... the saved are taken to heaven and spend the 1,000 years in heaven .... not on earth.

All rest in the grave (dormant sleep) until the Lord returns. There is NOT a burning place.

johansen · Saturday at 8:14 PM

eleos1954 said:
We are not immortal in any way .... we receive immortality when Jesus returns .... we do not have a "immortal soul"

This is more an opinion for an ECT vs Annihilation thread.

Note what Jesus says regarding "fear he who can destroy both body and soul in hell"

eleos1954 · 2025-09-07T12:29:07-0500

johansen said:
This is more an opinion for an ECT vs Annihilation thread.

Note what Jesus says regarding "fear he who can destroy both body and soul in hell"

this verse is seen as evidence that "destroying" a person's soul and body in hell means complete destruction and cessation of existence, not eternal suffering.

Genesis 2:7 describes Adam as becoming a "living soul" when God's breath entered his body made of dust. The soul is this unified entity of body and breath (not an immortal "spirit" of some kind).

We are mortal .... subject to death until Jesus returns.

Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Where, O Death, is Your Victory?
…52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Are we spiritual beings or just spiritually minded and/or spiritually filled?

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