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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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...the thoughts that are earthly, sensual, devilish … this is what angels/children represent to me ... from one place ...

Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
or kills her children...

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

We may be creeping up on the same page, when we understand the adversary is in fact, internal and NOT the persons. We are all affected, or infected if you prefer.

There is no vax for elimination of the tempter. There is only war, and at some time hopefully not too distant, death

Exodus 22:24
And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

There is a world, unseen, that covers this "whole world."
 
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Aaron112

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Aaron112

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There are no exemptions given to the above
Don't you mean no exceptions ?
------------------------------------------------------
Those who are abiding in Jesus, living and walking in the Light, who are lights in the world, often may be deceived (usually by their own church), but not necessarily always. Woe to everyone who causes them to stumble though.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Don't you mean no exceptions ?
That works as well.

There are no exemptions or exceptions to the rule. ALL have sin and sin is and remains "of the devil," Romans 3:9, 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15, Mark 7:21-23
 
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Aseyesee

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That is a misinterpretation of the verse to the pure all things are pure. The meaning is to the material things of the world, not to acts or thoughts of sin which are pure to no one
Though material things play into the meaning of pure from one place, without thought pure becomes a mute point ...

Tit 1:13-16 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Would there have been evil without God … would sin have entered into the world without the commandment? is a yes or no question … and irony if your answer is any more than yes or no … it was never about sin, but the process of the soul (Where are you? who told you? Have you eaten?); the tree yields its fruit through obedience … as it does through disobedience … one is full of labor the other, without cost …

"If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin."

"And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

The Christian and the Atheist fall into the same pit …

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. True or false … yay or nay …
 
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timothyu

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Well, I know you're fond of blaming "self" before you'd actually bring the tempter, the deceiver into the pictures, that's for sure. You work in the mental health field?
All humans have an adversarial spirit which works in league with the Adversary. We need only work on ourselves. Self-awareness need not lead to self-interest. God will deal with the bigger picture.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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All humans have an adversarial spirit which works in league with the Adversary
I appreciate the slight attempt to bring in our very real adversary into the pictures of everyone. So maybe you can see it's never just "self." In fact it is entirely our adversary operating in our own sorry hides.

IT's not a matter of the devil made me do it. The devil does it.

When Satan spoke through Peter, it was actually Satan speaking. Not Peter.
 
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Aseyesee

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I appreciate the slight attempt to bring in our very real adversary into the pictures of everyone. So maybe you can see it's never just "self." In fact it is entirely our adversary operating in our own sorry hides.

IT's not a matter of the devil made me do it. The devil does it.

When Satan spoke through Peter, it was actually Satan speaking. Not Peter.
What do you believe about this verse? "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils." what was the state of Mary at the time of this passage ...
 
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timothyu

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So maybe you can see it's never just "self." In fact it is entirely our adversary operating in our own sorry hides.
We became just as capable on a fleshy level to be adversarial to the will of God. All it took was for Eve and Adam to put there will first. The Tempter does just that... temps but can no more control us that the amount we want to lead ourselves into temptation to put our will ahead of the will of God. People fail the will of God every time they refuse to let someone in ahead of them in traffic. They don't need the Adversary working through them. They are willingly selfish themselves.
 
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timothyu

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When Satan spoke through Peter, it was actually Satan speaking. Not Peter.
Peter was being adversarial to the will of God when he said God's plan need not happen. Satan means adversary. Jesus told Peter he was being adversarial when He said “Get behind Me, Satan (adversary! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” He questioned the will of God in putting forth the will of man.
 
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or kills her children...

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

We may be creeping up on the same page, when we understand the adversary is in fact, internal and NOT the persons. We are all affected, or infected if you prefer.

There is no vax for elimination of the tempter. There is only war, and at some time hopefully not too distant, death

Exodus 22:24
And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

There is a world, unseen, that covers this "whole world."

i am on the exact same page as Aseyesee ...
 
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Though material things play into the meaning of pure from one place, without thought pure becomes a mute point ...

Tit 1:13-16 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Would there have been evil without God … would sin have entered into the world without the commandment? is a yes or no question … and irony if your answer is any more than yes or no … it was never about sin, but the process of the soul (Where are you? who told you? Have you eaten?); the tree yields its fruit through obedience … as it does through disobedience … one is full of labor the other, without cost …

"If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin."

"And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind. And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

The Christian and the Atheist fall into the same pit …

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. True or false … yay or nay …
To answer your question and keep it as yes and no, would sin have entered the world without God? The answer is yes

Just because there is no commandment does not mean there is no sin. Just because there is no knowledge of God does not mean there is no sin.

We have only to look at the antediluvian society. Each lived as was right in their own eyes, and their imaginations were evil continually. Moses and the Ten Commandments did not come until much later, yet God repented of creating them and they were destroyed by flood.
We are still trying to grasp the impact of that cataclysmic world event. Modern man has decided to deny it, and revert to using their vain imaginations. Neichze said God is dead, and sin grew worse than anything in recorded history.
It is only by the power of Christ and His shed blood that sin is taken away. Though our sins be red as scarlet they will be made as white as snow

Blood of Christ, falling upon the Earth in the agony, save us
Blood of Christ, shed profusely in the scourging, save us
Blood of Christ, flowing forth in the crowning of thorns, save us
Blood of Christ, poured out on the cross, save us
Blood of Christ, price of our salvation, save us
Blood of Christ, without which there is no forgiveness, save us
Blood of Christ, Eucharistic drink and refreshment of souls, save us


Without God, there is only sin and death
With God, there is forgiveness, life and peace

Theme js no process which we could put ourselves through except for faith in the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself for us.
We follow Him not by merely acknowledging His existence, but by obedience, self denial and humility. The process of redemption comes from God, not within us. That process includes forsaking sin and doing good works
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Peter was being adversarial
When Jesus addressed Satan speaking from Peter's lips WHO was Jesus speaking to? Satan or Peter?

IF Peter, then in your position Peter was essentially, Satan
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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We became just as capable on a fleshy level to be adversarial to the will of God. All it took was for Eve and Adam to put there will first. The Tempter does just that... temps but can no more control us that the amount we want to lead ourselves into temptation to put our will ahead of the will of God. People fail the will of God every time they refuse to let someone in ahead of them in traffic. They don't need the Adversary working through them. They are willingly selfish themselves.
Bottom line on this subject is this: IF there was/is another party involved that is not the person, (there is, Satan or his own) then we have an entirely different dynamic because that other party is a factor at a minimum.

For example, when Satan entered Judas, who was doing what?

This will get progressively complicated because ALL of Israel and we can back walk this all the way to Adam, are God's children. So now you have the complications of God's offspring involved.

There is an adversary that is not the person. And none of us stop that adversary from doing what it does
 
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Aseyesee

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It is only by the power of Christ and His shed blood that sin is taken away. Though our sins be red as scarlet they will be made as white as snow
Reasoning with God has the same outcome ...

No matter if you believe one way or the other, without God there would have been no devil ...

Do you believe God was surprised at the outcome of having created man on the earth (like God coming down to see if what he heard was true Gen18:21), or was this said for our sake? an Adam "Where art thou" ...
 
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Aseyesee

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There is an adversary that is not the person. And none of us stop that adversary from doing what it does
Does God control this adversary in us, or is he free to do as he will?
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Does God control this adversary in us, or is he free to do as he will?
The adversary reacts adversely and can do no other. An anti spiritual robot if you prefer
 
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