Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

Larniavc · Friday at 9:17 AM

o_mlly said:
Since German is not the native language in England, I submit WWII.

I think you mean Russia.

Larniavc · Friday at 9:18 AM

durangodawood said:
That would require a slight adjustment of verb tense.

You taking that back!

JosephZ · Friday at 9:26 AM

o_mlly said:
... are less often used than handguns in mass murders.

This is true. It's also why most gun reform calls for the banning of high-capacity magazines in conjunction with an assault-style weapons ban. High-capacity magazines are used in over half of mass shootings.

JosephZ · Friday at 9:33 AM

Hentenza said:
You, of course, will minimize this but history regarding banning items proves the opposite.

I was agreeing with you.

Hentenza said:
Banning typically result in the flourishing of a black market so the thugs are still going to have the powerful weapons and the extended magazines and the law obeying citizen will not.

JosephZ said:
There are always going to be people who ignore the law.

Hentenza said:
Your focus is asw‘s primarily.

Since that's the type of weapon used in this shooting, that's going to be the primary focus. I also mentioned other measures earlier in the thread:

JosephZ said:
Banning assault-style weapons is not the only thing that needs to change. I showed earlier that high capacity magazines have been used in over half of mass shootings with 6 or more killed. They are also used on the streets by criminals and gang members who kill and injure many people each year. Combine this with waiting periods, red flag laws, and universal background checks on all gun purchases and transfers, including private transfers and sales, and thousands of lives will be saved each year.

And in years past:

JosephZ said:
I would like to see increased spending on mental health services and treatment to all Americans, ban assault weapons, universal background checks, red flag laws to take guns away from the mentally ill, domestic abusers, and child abusers; raise the age to buy a gun to 21, have a ten day waiting period, and require firearms training, registration and licensing.

JosephZ said:
As for what else I would like to see at the federal level in addition to a ban on "assault style" weapons and high capacity magazines:

Universal background checks on all gun purchases and transfers, including private transfers and sales at gun shows;

Require a 10 day waiting period on all gun purchases;

Require registration and a license for each gun that a person owns;

Have a minimum age limit of 21 to purchase a handgun and require a hunting license for purchases of rifles or shotguns by adults under 21 who are not in the military or law enforcement; and

Require training and a proficiency test for the type of gun being purchased.

Hentenza said:
Your focus is asw‘s primarily. Typical left battle cry. Look, knives kill 1,500 people a year and cars kill 40,000 plus but no one is crying about regulating knives or cars. Your battle cry is political and nothing else.

The reason no one is crying about banning knives or cars is because it's a stupid idea. BTW, cars are heavily regulated and there are laws concerning what types of knives you are allowed to carry in public.

Hentenza · Friday at 9:43 AM

Larniavc said:
Did you ignore the section that you posted? The finding about deaths when access to guns was reduced?

IT WENT DOWN!

So saying ‘yeah but we’re not allowed to restrict gun access because of a rule made 250 years ago’ is beyond stupid.

But go ahead America; keeping letting kids get gunned down in schools. America society has failed its most vulnerable.

Larniavc said:
Did you ignore the section that you posted? The finding about deaths when access to guns was reduced?

IT WENT DOWN!

So saying ‘yeah but we’re not allowed to restrict gun access because of a rule made 250 years ago’ is beyond stupid.

But go ahead America; keeping letting kids get gunned down in schools. America society has failed it’s most vulnerable.

We are not the UK. You have no room for criticism. In the US gun ownership is a constitutionally protected right.

BTW- freedom of speech is also a constitutionally protected right in the US not as it is in the UK.

Your country is better than mine is a non sensical, and short sighted argument.

Larniavc · Friday at 10:56 AM

Hentenza said:
You have no room for criticism. In the US gun ownership is a constitutionally protected right.

Yes I know. That is a big part of the problem. America has proved time and again it is unable to prevent its citizens from killing kids in schools with guns.

That is part of what has to change.

Larniavc · Friday at 10:59 AM

Hentenza said:
BTW- freedom of speech is also a constitutionally protected right in the US not as it is in the UK.

What has that got to do with this topic? Or are you saying gun crime is protected speech?

What are you even talking about?

Desk trauma · Friday at 11:06 AM

Larniavc said:
That is part of what has to change.

The “has” is a bit presumptuous. We have demonstrated we’re capable of going on like this.

Larniavc · Friday at 11:15 AM

Desk trauma said:
The “has” is a bit presumptuous. We have demonstrated we’re capable of going on like this.

Yeah; I should have said ‘has to change if something is to done about it’.

I kind of see America as making a blood sacrifice every year of kids and vulnerable people so that they can carry on living the way they do.

It’s something I’ve noticed about American society based on the microcosm of this site (which is a very self selecting population); it’s not a real problem until it happens to the individual.

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:23 AM

Bradskii said:
A lot more than...who? Australia has guns and I was going to say that you have a massively bigger problem than we do. But it's not even possible to compare them.

At what point to do you think 'Hey, this is as bad as I will accept'? Because you're obviously not there yet. And to stay away from from large numbers where they can be considered as just a statistic, let's check the daily deaths of children from firearms in the US. It's 12. Each day. Tell me how high it needs to be before a nationwide agreement on gun control is required.

Give me a figure. If 12 isn't enough then tell me how many.

If guns were the issue we would have 100,000s or MILLIONS of people die with guns each year or else we would have guns going off randomly neither of those are the case.

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:35 AM

Bradskii said:
Can we have your ideas on keeping guns out of the hands of mentally unstable people?

I know I am not the poster being addressed, but I suggest better mental health care namely meaning more accessible. It is also important to encourage people to speak up if they have concerns about people ( though that should come with safe gaurds to keep people from saying that because they do not like the person and/or guns as opposed to TRUELY feel they are a threat to themselves or others There are ways of doing that. Also, even as someone who does not support incarceration as a first resort with non-violent crimes I would support maybe stronger sentences when a gun was involved though what the sentence should be should of course depend on the case. The tricky part there is our system would not work without plea bargains, however they could for example not be permitted to drop gun enhancemeces or else require the enhancement part of the sentence be served first (thus still making the sentence longer. I also have no problem with charging people who KNOWINGLY provide guns to such people. There meaning knowing someone is unstable and not taking steps to prevent them from accessing your guns such as safes. However, if someone used someone else's gun when the latter had no idea nor had any reason to know or suspect the person was a danger to themelves or others they should not be charged (unless it was a young minor say below the age of 10 or so.

Hentenza · Friday at 11:35 AM

Larniavc said:
What has that got to do with this topic? Or are you saying gun crime is protected speech?

What are you even talking about?

I criticized your country as you criticized mine.

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:38 AM

seeking.IAM said:
Don't rule out contagion. One mentally ill person sees another grab their 15 minutes of fame in a school shooting and decides they can seize a little of that infamy for themselves. We got the snowball going downhill.

yup the issue is many times people like that do not care if that fame is good or bad. Which is one reason I feel that they should not make as big of a deal out of the school shootings. I am NOT saying not to report on them, but do not talk about them for days on end and do not bring up prior shootings every time there is another.

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:40 AM

Bradskii said:
What saves more lives than you can imagine is that vehicles and driving are very heavily regulated. And I don't see anyone complaining about that.

These are Australian rules: You have to be above a certain age before you can drive a car. You can't get a licence until you pass a test. You have to show that you are physically and mentally capable of driving. If you fail then you have to wait until you do another. You have to show that you've had a certain amount of instruction. Once you pass your test you are limited as to the type of car you can drive and what speed you drive it at. The car has to be examined each year for roadworthiness. There are a boatload of restrictions on where you can drive, how fast you can drive, safety precautions that you must take and rules and regulations that you must follow each and every time you use the car. You can be stopped and questioned about your driving if it appears you are not following the rules and regs and you can be randomly stopped to make sure you are not using the car under the influence. You can have your licence revoked and your car taken from you if you break the rules. You have to have insurance in case you hurt someone with your car. You are not allowed to let someone drive it who isn't licensed for the type of vehicle. You are limited as to what changes you can make to the standard car. You are limited to 25mph near schools and in a fair proportion of city and suburban streets.

Perhaps I've missed a few others, but you get the idea. Cars are simply a means to get from A to B. But they are extremely dangerous. Even small cars at quite low speeds can cause a lot of damage (and I have the scars to prove that). So it has obviously been determined that driving one has to be strongly regulated. It's obviously common sense.

But when it comes to something that has been specifically designed to kill people then common sense rules and regulations apparently don't apply.

yet 1000s of people are still killed each year in car accidents same with drugs the drug war has failed something awful.

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:42 AM

Nithavela said:
I vote that no live is saved.

that makes no sense.

Nithavela · Friday at 11:45 AM

dogs4thewin said:
that makes no sense.

You give two options and then you invalidate one?

dogs4thewin said:
I am all or nothing type you save as many as you can or NONE at all

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:48 AM

Hentenza said:
Banning typically result in the flourishing of a black market so the thugs are still going to have the powerful weapons and the extended magazines and the law obeying citizen will not. I disagree with banning. I agree with a REASONABLE waiting period and universal background checks. I also think that a robust education program prioritizing safety and a “see something say something“ culture would help. The Hippa laws restrict the sharing of medical information which hinders medical professionals from sounding alarms of those with mental health issues that have killing thoughts. I’m not an expert here but Im sure there are people much smarter than me that can find a middle ground.

Yes, the issue with black markets is that not only are they out there, but there is NO way whatsoever to regulate the black market. Minors for example, an get guns off the street no age mimimum no nothing same reason that with stret drugs it is much much much easier to overdose because you have no idea what you are getting. At this point as wide spread as guns are there would be little controlling the black market, but education is very important. The thing with background checks is they are great, but ONLY work if something is documented

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:51 AM

Larniavc said:
They very definitely should. Reducing access to means is a proven method of reducing suicide completion.

Japan has few guns and pretty high suicide. Suicide is kinda of like homicide a person who REALLY wants to do it will find a way. Now, yes guns are quicker, but it is not as if that is the only way one can commit suicide by any means.

Hentenza · Friday at 11:53 AM

Larniavc said:
Yes I know. That is a big part of the problem. America has proved time and again it is unable to prevent its citizens from killing kids in schools with guns.

That is part of what has to change.

That is not happening since it is a constitutionally protected right. In the UK 83% of kids 13 to 19 are killed with a sharp object but I don’t see you trying to ban knives. The hypocrisy.

dogs4thewin · Friday at 11:55 AM

Nithavela said:
You give two options and then you invalidate one?

@Larniavc Maybe I should have been clearer when it coms to medicial treatment save as many people as is REASONABLE, but if we are talking about items guns, cars ECT in my mind it makes the most sense to save the most people or none at all in part because I do not trust the government to stop at "bad" guns or big cars ( if that was the topic at hand.

Mass Shooting at Annunciation Catholic Church/School in Minneapolis

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