"If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail," President Donald Trump said as he signed executive orders in the Oval Office on Monday.

durangodawood · Tuesday at 9:04 AM

Yarddog said:
....Trump cannot change US Law.

No need. He is a law unto himself.

Yarddog · Tuesday at 11:24 AM

durangodawood said:
No need. He is a law unto himself.

That's what he thinks. LOL

eleos1954 · Tuesday at 11:51 AM

essentialsaltes said:
"What it does is incite to riot," Trump said of flag burning. He said under this order, "you will see flag burning stopping immediately."

In 1989, the Supreme Court ruled that flag burning was a form of "symbolic speech" under the Constitution.

-

It looks as though the order is simply applying known limits to free speech, such as inciting imminent lawlessness, to flag burning. And clearly trying to move the needle as far as possible in the direction of prosecution.

Notwithstanding the Supreme Court’s rulings on First Amendment protections, the Court has never held that American Flag desecration conducted in a manner that is likely to incite imminent lawless action or that is an action amounting to “fighting words” is constitutionally protected.

It's ANY flag burning .... Any flag can be burnt and is considered symbolic of free speech.

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 11:58 AM

GoldenBoy89 said:
This should make for some interesting VFW ceremonies.

View attachment 369058

View attachment 369059

Flags when damaged or worn are destroyed by fire. There is a huge difference between following code and someone dousing the flag in a fuel and burning it in some perceived protest. Look at your pictures closely.

Good grief - did you not even look at where your picture came from?

US Dept of Defense -

How to Properly Dispose of Worn-Out U.S. Flags

Rules on how to properly fly the flag were established in June 1923, when the National Flag Conference met in Washington. Its members created the Flag Code, which states that "the flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing."

The American Legion passed a resolution about flag retirement ceremonies in 1937, and they've been an important ritual ever since. According to the resolution, "The approved method of disposing of unserviceable flags has long been that they be destroyed by burning."

The U.S. flag is considered such a sacred symbol that burning it in an undignified manner constitutes desecration.

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 1:11 PM

Always in His Presence said:
Flags when damaged or worn are destroyed by fire. There is a huge difference between following code and someone dousing the flag in a fuel and burning it in some perceived protest.

Not really. You can’t outlaw people’s feelings, only their actions. If the act of burning a flag is illegal it should be illegal in all circumstances.

Protest is (supposed to be) protected speech, btw.

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 1:43 PM

GoldenBoy89 said:
Not really. You can’t outlaw people’s feelings, only their actions. If the act of burning a flag is illegal it should be illegal in all circumstances.

In a totalitarian regime it would.

GoldenBoy89 said:
Protest is (supposed to be) protected speech, btw.

Destruction has now been one acceptable parts of protest?

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 2:18 PM

Always in His Presence said:
Destruction has now been one acceptable parts of protest?

Of one's own property, yes, in the case of flag burning, per SCOTUS.

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 2:18 PM

Always in His Presence said:
Destruction has now been one acceptable parts of protest?

Yes, why wouldn’t it be?

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 2:32 PM

GoldenBoy89 said:
Yes, why wouldn’t it be?

You're joking - right?

I go out and protest - I choose to burn down your home - it is an acceptable form of protest?

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 2:33 PM

Always in His Presence said:
You're joking - right?

I go out and protest - I choose to burn down your home - it is an acceptable form of protest?

That’s not what we’re taking about here. Try again.

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 2:34 PM

GoldenBoy89 said:
That’s not what we’re taking about here. Try again.

We? you got a frog in your pocket? I understand - I would be embarrassed also if the pictures I posted were found to be how to honor the flag and I was trying to justify dishonoring the flag.

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 2:45 PM

Always in His Presence said:
We? you got a frog in your pocket?

We as in me and you, having this conversation.

Or am I just taking to myself here?

Always in His Presence said:
I understand - I would be embarrassed also if the pictures I posted were found to be how to honor the flag and I was trying to justify dishonoring the flag.

If you don’t understand the relation between burning a flag (protest) and burning a flag (disposal) then I don’t know what else to tell you. The point is in both cases a US flag is being set on fire. The difference is only in the flag burner’s feelings towards the country, which we can’t really outlaw how people feel about things so if we’re going to outlaw the act of burning a flag then we have to outlaw every instance of flag burning.

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 2:48 PM

GoldenBoy89 said:
We as in me and you, having this conversation.

Or am I just taking to myself here?

Since you are not answering my questions - I assume you are talking to hear yourself speak. My apologies - would you like to answer some of my questions now?

Oh, and be careful - the grammar patrol with call you out for not using the proper "you and I"

Is it you and I or you and me?
When deciding whether to use ‘and I’ or ‘and me’, you must identify whether you are the subject or the object of the verb. In other words, are you doing the action, or is someone else doing it to you?

Why don’t you and I grab a coffee sometime? (subject of ‘grab’)

Please tell Sasha that my father and I appreciate her help. (subject of ‘appreciate’)

Alistair and I will prepare dinner tonight. (subject of ‘prepare’)

Liz bought donuts for you and me! (object of ‘bought’)

To decide between ‘you and I’ and ‘you and me’ specifically, consider whether you would replace the phrase with ‘we’ or ‘us’. ‘We’ represents ‘you and I’, whereas ‘us’ represents ‘you and me’.

Note that ‘you and me’ is sometimes acceptable as a subject in informal settings, but you shouldn’t use it in business communication or when taking an English test.

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 2:51 PM

Always in His Presence said:
Since you are not answering my questions -

I’ve answered your questions. What have I missed? The one about frogs? Was that a serious question?

Always in His Presence said:
I assume you are talking to hear yourself speak. My apologies - would you like to answer some of my questions now?

Go ahead. What was your question?

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 2:53 PM

Was it this one?

Always in His Presence said:
You're joking - right?

No, I’m not joking.

Always in His Presence said:
I go out and protest - I choose to burn down your home - it is an acceptable form of protest?

This has nothing to do with the point I was making. If you can’t follow the logic just say so and maybe I can help you out.

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 3:07 PM

GoldenBoy89 said:
Was it this one?

No, I’m not joking.

This has nothing to do with the point I was making. If you can’t follow the logic just say so and maybe I can help you out.

I'm not the one incapable of following the logic.

If destruction is an acceptable form of protest - then my burning down someone's property is also acceptable.

If I want to protest the local Christian Church because I think they are homophobic, it is then acceptable protest to burn it down.

Where do you draw the line.

Then whose rights are most concerned about - the protestor or men and woman in the armed services and those that died defending that flag, who view it as a sacred symbol. Do we ignore their rights?

Those are my questions - I look forward to your answers/

RileyG · Tuesday at 3:10 PM

durangodawood said:
Flag burning is nasty. Its basically a plastic fire.

Ugh! That’s not good for the environment! BUT BUT BUT I’m very much pro freedom of expression, even if I don’t like it.

RileyG · Tuesday at 3:13 PM

Always in His Presence said:
I'm not the one incapable of following the logic.

If destruction is an acceptable form of protest - then my burning down someone's property is also acceptable.

If I want to protest the local Christian Church because I think they are homophobic, it is then acceptable protest to burn it down.

Where do you draw the line.

Then whose rights are most concerned about - the protestor or men and woman in the armed services and those that died defending that flag, who view it as a sacred symbol. Do we ignore their rights?

Those are my questions - I look forward to your answers/

Reminds me in the early 1980s, Larry Flynt of the pornographic magazine Hustler, who has since died, wore an American flag as a diaper to one of his court hearings and got a misdemeanor charge for it.

I have a friend who son was in the military. She’s very pro American flag and people actually got upset with her expressing her opinion about certain football players kneeling during the national anthem.

I understand 100% what you are saying.

My grandfather, may he rest in peace, was in WWII.

GoldenBoy89 · Tuesday at 3:14 PM

Always in His Presence said:
I'm not the one incapable of following the logic.

We’ll see about that.

Always in His Presence said:
If destruction is an acceptable form of protest - then my burning down someone's property is also acceptable.

Destruction of a flag, bro.

That’s the topic of this thread. That’s all I’m talking about.

Always in His Presence said:
If I want to protest the local Christian Church because I think they are homophobic, it is then acceptable protest to burn it down.

Where do you draw the line.

Then whose rights are most concerned about - the protestor or men and woman in the armed services and those that died defending that flag, who view it as a sacred symbol. Do we ignore their rights?

Those are my questions - I look forward to your answers/

None of this has anything to do with any point I’ve made. If you still need help figuring things out, I’m right here.

RileyG · Tuesday at 3:16 PM

GoldenBoy89 said:
We’ll see about that.

Destruction of a flag, bro.

That’s the topic of this thread. That’s all I’m talking about.

None of this has anything to do with any point I’ve made. If you still need help figuring things out, I’m right here.

Some people view destruction of the American flag as a sign of contempt for the United States.

It’s sort of related to how some people view the confederate flag as un-American.

"If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail," President Donald Trump said as he signed executive orders in the Oval Office on Monday.

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