I'm talking about physical descendants of Jacob. Most Jews today are physical descendants of Jacob. They are Israel.
And God knows who they are. And He will bring them back to the land He promised to Abraham's descendants, if He has not brought them already. This has been propecised in the Bible as I have shown already.
Yes, they are people who identify as Jews today, but are not. I'm not talking about them.
Are you saying that Jewish people who aren't moving to the modern state of Israel aren't actually Jews?
What's anti-semitism is Christians saying that the Church has replaced Israel. Or that Israel has forfeited the promises God gave them. Or that the modern state of Israel has nothing to do with the OT Israel. That's anti-semitic.
Yes it's true that Jews have done lot of evil to Christians, but so have Christians done lot of evil to Jews in the name of Jesus. But that of course does not get talked about, the Christian persecution of Jews. That's anti-semitism.
It's obvious that Christian violence against Jewish people is an historic evil, and continuing antisemitic sentiment among Christians today is a present evil. You aren't going to find me making an argument defending historic or modern antisemitism, because I believe antisemitism is a deplorable evil.
Now, again, I'm not going to debate theology in this thread. As I've said numerous times already. But perhaps you could explain how it is antisemitic to not believe the modern state of Israel is biblically or religiously significant. Wouldn't that render a good amount of the Jewish population as being antisemitic? There are millions of Jews, both religious and non-religious, who do not regard the modern state of Israel to having any religious or biblical significance. While different branches of Judaism have different views, and even within those branches of Judaism there can be wide diversity of views, a good percentage of Judaism does not subscribe to any form of Religious Zionism. Indeed, a prevailing view within Orthodox and Hasidic Judaism holds that the return of the Jewish diaspora and the restoration of Israel to the Jewish people does not and cannot happen until the Messiah comes, and from this perspective the modern state of Israel is either non-significant or worse, illegitimate. Now that isn't to say this is the view of all Orthodox and Hasidic Jews--because it's not. But it most certainly is a view held among religious Jews in Orthodox and Hasidic circles, and was the principle basis for early opposition against Secular Zionism in the late 19th and early 20th century among religious Jews of the Diaspora.
At any rate, is it your position, then, that Jewish people of this persuasion are antisemitic?
Or would these be the "not real Jews" you mentioned earlier? A statement that is, frankly, sending alarm bells. For a lot of reason, the most obvious is that "Jews are not real Jews" is a pretty classic antisemitic trope. But also, treating Jewishness as "physical descent from Jacob" is fraught with all manner of issues, not only does this seem to be an attempt to deny the Jewishness of Jewish people (which, again, gets us back to the problem of antisemitism in the statement); but it blatantly disregards that Judaism is a religion, and millions of people have converted to Judaism over thousands of years. Now given that I am trying to avoid explicitly theological (and by extension, biblical/hermeneutical/exegetical) debate in this thread as this is not the place for it, I'll only briefly bring this up: But from a theological/biblical perspective this "physical descent from Jacob" marker ignores poignant biblical data (the existence of Ruth, the Moabite who converted to Judaism, and there's a whole book of the Bible devoted to telling her story), and makes for a real problem when the biblical language isn't interested about genetics, but Covenant--Jews are the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and this is sealed at the Covenant made at Sinai. It's not about being physically descended from Jacob, it's about being a
covenant child of Abraham. A Gentile that converts to Judaism is no less Jewish than anyone else.
At any rate, it would appear that your position is that people who don't agree with your particular religious view is antisemitic, while you are yourself engaging in classic and historic antisemitic tropes without realizing it. You'll forgive me for finding this quite ironic.
But this does do a good job of illustrating one of my problems with Christian Zionism broadly, and Dispensationalism in particular. Christian Zionists and Dispensationalists often give the appearance of being philosemitic, but scratch a bit beneath the surface and what one sees is not a genuine concern or care about Jewish people as real actual human beings--but rather a patronizing view of Jewish people that dehumanizes them, and uses philosemitic masking to harbor genuinely antisemitic attitudes.
-CryptoLutheran
