Illegal Immigration

BeckyJ · Wednesday at 3:04 PM

Aaron112 said:
That is soooo wroooong !

What is sooo wrong specifically?

BCP1928 · Wednesday at 3:07 PM

Aaron112 said:
Romans 13
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing.

He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

True, but I don't want any of my hard-earned tax dollars going to lazy poor people who don't work or aliens who have snuck in here to contaminate the purity of our cultural institutions. On the other hand, I don't want much effort wasted tracking down those aliens who have committed serious crimes while here--unless you come across them by chance--and I certainly don't want to disturb illegal aliens who are being exploited by corporate enterprise, except for occasional show raids and assuming that those employers and labor contractors only get a slap on the wrist. MAGA!

FAITH-IN-HIM · Wednesday at 3:07 PM

Aaron112 said:
Did any president obey God and His Commandments or His Instructions or His Word ?

I see you don’t want to answer. that’s fine.

I've noticed Christians quoting Romans 13 more in the past six months than ever before. Now it's emphasized to support President Trump as appointed by God, but the same logic isn't used for previous presidents.

FAITH-IN-HIM · Wednesday at 3:18 PM

BeckyJ said:
This isn't about "sinners".
God has a wall, an entrance requirement. If a person doesn't meet His requirement, they don't get inot Heaven, no matter how nice or needy they may be.
Breaking the law for political gain isn't something that God approves of.
And isn't God able to take care of the millions who came in illegally, presuming they are in real need, though some are criminals coming it, but isn't God able to meet their needs if they are legit right where they are or even in another country with less strict immigration laws?
Yes, yes He is. The US isn't the savior, only Jesus Christ is!

If the reasoning is that God can care for immigrants in their home countries and therefore we should refrain from providing assistance, this logic could similarly be applied to other situations.

“feed the hungry, give water to thirsty, give shelter to stranger, clothed the naked, look after the sick, visit those who are in prison. (Matt 25) , take care the widow ( Acts 6), give justice to the weak and fatherless ( Psalm 82) take care immigrants ( Deut 10:19 / Psalm 146).

So we can keep all our wealth to ourselves and those who are poor, sick , needy, just tell them if there needs are legit , God will take care of them.

Aaron112 · Wednesday at 3:22 PM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
I see you don’t want to answer. that’s fine.

I've noticed Christians quoting Romans 13 more in the past six months than ever before. Now it's emphasized to support President Trump as appointed by God, but the same logic isn't used for previous presidents.

You don't want to answer ? That's not fine - not okay. You brought it up !

p.s. No logic.

durangodawood · Wednesday at 3:22 PM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
If the reasoning is that God can care for immigrants in their home countries and therefore we should refrain from providing assistance, this logic could similarly be applied to other situations.

“feed the hungry, give water to thirsty, give shelter to stranger, clothed the naked, look after the sick, visit those who are in prison. (Matt 25) , take care the widow ( Acts 6), give justice to the weak and fatherless ( Psalm 82) take care immigrants ( Deut 10:19 / Psalm 146).

So we can keep all our wealth to ourselves and those who are poor, sick , needy, just tell them if there needs are legit , God will take care of them.

The Christianity that doesnt require anything of you is much more appealing to people.

BeckyJ · Wednesday at 3:24 PM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
If the reasoning is that God can care for immigrants in their home countries and therefore we should refrain from providing assistance, this logic could similarly be applied to other situations.

“feed the hungry, give water to thirsty, give shelter to stranger, clothed the naked, look after the sick, visit those who are in prison. (Matt 25) , take care the widow ( Acts 6), give justice to the weak and fatherless ( Psalm 82) take care immigrants ( Deut 10:19 / Psalm 146).

So we can keep all our wealth to ourselves and those who are poor, sick , needy, just tell them if there needs are legit , God will take care of them.

This is just about immigration.
Cherry picking verses to make a point we shouldn't do.
There are different applications for different verses.

durangodawood · Wednesday at 3:27 PM

BeckyJ said:
....And isn't God able to take care of the millions who came in illegally, presuming they are in real need, though some are criminals coming it, but isn't God able to meet their needs if they are legit right where they are or even in another country with less strict immigration laws?
Yes, yes He is. The US isn't the savior, only Jesus Christ is!

Is this a general principle: that God can meet everyone's needs, and so there's no need for people to step in to meet them?

I guess it means if you do help other people, it means youre lacking faith in the capacity for God to do it.

BeckyJ · Wednesday at 3:28 PM

durangodawood said:
The Christianity that doesnt require anything of you is much more appealing to people.

The christianity that requires anything of you above what God's one requirement is, is much more appealing to those who think Christianity does require anything beyond what God requires.
Isaiah 55:8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord.

Maria Billingsley · Wednesday at 3:29 PM

HARK! said:
That doesn't answer my questions.

Your conflation of words does not constitute a confirmation.

Let's look at verse of your premise (specifically the word גר) in the Greek LXX:

Strong's Greek: 4339 προσήλυτος (proselutos) - proselyte
Strong's Definitions pros-ay'-loo-tos; from the alternate of (4334) (προσέρχομαι); an arriver from a foreign region, i.e. (special) an acceder (convert) to Judaism ("proselyte"): — proselyte.

Now let's look at the word in the verse that is being conflated with your premise.

ξενος G3581

So I ask again; do you understand what a גר is?

I ask again does Yah call us to follow the law?

(CLV) Hb 1:9
Thou lovest righteousness (kept THE LAW) and hatest injustice (disregard for THE LAW) ; Therefore Thou art anointed by The God, (tou theou) (YHWH), Thy God, with the oil of exultation beyond Thy partners."

If you can point out where in scripture Jesus Christ of Nazareth teaches us not to love the stranger then I'll reverse course. Because honestly, if you are folding this into Torah obedience you are missing a very important lesson here.
Thanks for sharing.

Aaron112 · Wednesday at 3:29 PM

BeckyJ said:
What is sooo wrong specifically?

Actually, there is not space enough here (it would fill dozens of books, eh? ) and probably against the rules to be more specific..... not that the rules are binding, no, but problematic and not worth getting into now that it has passed.

BeckyJ · Wednesday at 3:31 PM

durangodawood said:
Is this a general principle: that God can meet everyone's needs, and so there's no need for people to step in to meet them?

I guess it means if you do help other people, it means youre lacking faith in the capacity for God to do it.

Twisting what was said because what was said didn't fit the narrative is not a good call.
This post is about ILLEGAL immigration.
The US isn't the savior of illegal entrants.
That doesn't mean immigrants aren't welcomed here. of course all of them are, if they come the legal route.
I have some friends who have done so and even they don't agree with what the Biden administration did in allowing millions in illegally.

Maria Billingsley · Wednesday at 3:31 PM

BeckyJ said:
It's not hard at all.
The type of love matters and twisting scripture to fit a narrative isn't what God wants people to do.

Twist scripture by loving the stranger? Im affraid this is out of my sphere of understanding.
Thanks for sharing.

FAITH-IN-HIM · Wednesday at 3:32 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Happy to point out that Jesus Christ of Nazareth confirmed this in the new testament. Im affraid you're just not going to be able to get around it, " Love".

Matthew 25:35, 40:
"For I was a stranger and you welcomed me...Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

Quoting scripture to justify government policy presents several challenges. For example, if I initiate a discussion suggesting that same-sex marriage should be banned because the Bible describes homosexuality as an abomination, many Christians who identify as Democrats or liberals may raise concerns about the separation of church and state. Similarly, if I propose implementing school prayer, numerous Christians on the political left might argue that America is a secular society and that imposing Christian prayer on non-Christians is inappropriate.

Similarly, some evangelicals seek to ban abortion and gay marriage based on biblical principles. Yet, when discussing social welfare programs that help the needy—teachings reflected in the Sermon on the Mount—they often argue such biblical teachings should be practiced privately, not through government policy.

We tend to cite biblical teachings when they support our policies, but avoid them in government when they do not.

Aaron112 · Wednesday at 3:36 PM

summary footnote:'If anyone brings a false gospel, they are to be accursed, as Paul emphatically states in Galatians 1, declaring that even if he or an angel from heaven preached a different gospel, they should be under God's curse. This severe warning underscores the critical importance of adhering to the true gospel of Christ, which Paul had originally preached to the Galatians. The term "accursed" (Greek: anathema) signifies being devoted to destruction and under God's judgment, a curse that applies to anyone who preaches a gospel contrary to the one received. Paul's warning is not limited to outsiders; it applies to anyone, including fellow apostles, who distort the gospel message."

Maria Billingsley said:
If you can point out where in scripture Jesus Christ of Nazareth teaches us not to love the stranger then I'll reverse course.

BeckyJ said:
That doesn't mean immigrants aren't welcomed here. of course all of them are,

Or not......

HARK! · Wednesday at 3:37 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
If you can point out where in scripture Jesus Christ of Nazareth teaches us not to love the stranger then I'll reverse course

If you can point out where in scripture Yahshua teaches us that lawlessness is an act of love; then I'll reverse course

BeckyJ · Wednesday at 3:40 PM

Aaron112 said:
Actually, there is not space enough here (it would fill dozens of books, eh? ) and probably against the rules to be more specific..... not that the rules are binding, no, but problematic and not worth getting into now that it has passed.

Not even one example.
ok

HARK! · Wednesday at 3:42 PM

DaisyDay said:
What, you think they got a visa?

Do you think that they broke the law if a visa was required?

Aaron112 · Wednesday at 3:42 PM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Does Romans 13 apply to President Biden and his administration?

Aaron112 said:
Did any president obey God and His Commandments or His Instructions or His Word ?

No.

Aaron112 · Wednesday at 3:44 PM

BeckyJ said:
Not even one example.
ok

Remember the rules of the forum do not permit many different examples, even truth.
Thus, in context today, if you did not read along and see what a post referred to, it may not be "allowed" to point it out openly.

Illegal Immigration

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Strong's Greek: 4339 προσήλυτος (proselutos) - proselyte​

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Strong's Greek: 4339 προσήλυτος (proselutos) - proselyte