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childeye 2

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Here is an interesting article (albeit from a political application) that bears on truth.


It is not an uncommon argument for a wife to complain to her husband, “You never talk to me”. To which the husband might respond, “What do you think we are doing now”. To analyze this exchange we might see the same language used for two different purposes. For the wife, language is used to express how she feels. For the husband language is used factually. Sadly, the husband often fails to recognize that it is up to him to translate his wife’s distress and take steps to verbally connect with her.

In the example above, both parties were speaking truth but in different ways. Using the example of when a liberal accuses Trump of being Hitler, we find a greater distortion of language than just expressing emotional distress. The basic problem is a different view of truth. One can see truth as an absolute and unchangeable description of reality. However, liberals often see truth as relativistic and more fluid. A flexible truth in support of what one wants or how one feels can be much more useful.

Another component to factor in understanding the trouble liberals have with truth can be found with the word “hypocrisy”. Derived from the Greek meaning to “speak from under a mask”, we tend to think of the word as intentional deception such as the actors art. However, the warning Jesus gave his disciples about this touches a more profound aspect, that of self-deception. This may be more similar to an actor who “gets lost in his part”. In the Seinfeld TV show George Costanza attempting to condense his expertise in lying tells Jerry, “It’s not a lie if you believe it”.

We are all born helpless, ignorant, and selfish. We rely on our parents to help us learn to see truth, develop self-discipline, and navigate a potentially hostile world. Liberals are like children who never learned to see truth or have regressed to a childish state. One can see the appeal of the irrational to a child. For example, the prospect of unlimited ice cream might induce a child to agree with anything. Similarly, the appeal of communism (when presented as “everyone can have everything all the time”) has a strong appeal.

Perhaps Jesus warned his disciples against self-deception because it is a prison that one seldom escapes. Without the ability or desire to see truth no amount of failure can put a dent into utopian dreams. Liberals lie because it helps them get what they want and makes them feel good. In the artifical world their childish imagination has created this is as real and true as unicorns, free beer, forgiven student debt, endless government borrowing, and unrestrained sensual indulgences. Those who would threaten this world are enemies that need to be destroyed.
For what it's worth, this is a biased description of the term "liberal". It's based on negative prejudice and reasoning upon it will end in a contradiction of reasoning.
 
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childeye 2

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The liberal tradition from Italian Humanism through the so-called enlightenment and progressive ism, down to today has all been about the elevation of man over God. This distance from God does not enhance the ability to discern truth.
I think I see the problem. The term liberal in the sentence above is an adjective, so it will be qualified by what it is describing. The term liberal infers liberty. 'Liberalism' does not equate with atheism or practicing sin, however, the term sometimes intends to imply a sentiment of liberty from religious dogma.
 
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durangodawood

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This question begins for me as a semantic one.

Truth is a human construct. It represents a very high confidence level in statements about reality. But look at human history, which shows us how we've had to revise purportedly "true" statements over and over.

"Reality" otoh, is a good word for whats really going on here independent of individual observations and interpretations.
 
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RileyG

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durangodawood

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Are ones individual perceptions a reality?

Define reality
Your act of perception is a fully real event of course.

But your internal experience may vary widely in its correspondence to external reality. And even your most realistic apprehension is an extremely incomplete picture.

(Reality is whats actually happening)
 
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essentialsaltes

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Are ones individual perceptions a reality?
No, as people have mentioned, we do not directly apprehend reality. But I assume I'm not a brain in a vat or deluded by demons into perceiving something totally different from reality. Our senses give us a way to interrogate reality. We may be liable to optical illusions or other mistakes in perception, but with careful observations and thoughtfulness, we can piece together certain facts or truths about reality that are reliable. So that we feel justified in saying that it's not just true, but we know it is true.

Define reality
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Philip K. Dick

It's the place we all live.
 
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RileyG

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No, as people have mentioned, we do not directly apprehend reality. But I assume I'm not a brain in a vat or deluded by demons into perceiving something totally different from reality. Our senses give us a way to interrogate reality. We may be liable to optical illusions or other mistakes in perception, but with careful observations and thoughtfulness, we can piece together certain facts or truths about reality that are reliable. So that we feel justified in saying that it's not just true, but we know it is true.


Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Philip K. Dick

It's the place we all live.
Ah, gotcha!
 
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RileyG

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Your act of perception is a fully real event of course.

But your internal experience may vary widely in its correspondence to external reality. And even your most realistic apprehension is an extremely incomplete picture.

(Reality is whats actually happening)
Thanks for the response!
 
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Niels

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Are ones individual perceptions a reality?
Our perceptions are an interpretation of reality. Some are demonstrably more accurate than others, but we don't have access to the entirety of truth. Considering the scope of our knowledge and the many ways that truth can be defined. I think objective reality nevertheless exists. Even if we only perceive parts of it.

No, as people have mentioned, we do not directly apprehend reality. But I assume I'm not a brain in a vat or deluded by demons into perceiving something totally different from reality. Our senses give us a way to interrogate reality. We may be liable to optical illusions or other mistakes in perception, but with careful observations and thoughtfulness, we can piece together certain facts or truths about reality that are reliable. So that we feel justified in saying that it's not just true, but we know it is true.
You are a brain in a meat bag. Arguably similar to a brain in a vat. Each of us interprets reality through the lens of our own experience, culture, education, disposition, etc.

We can, as you indicated, move toward a more comprehensive perception of reality through study. There is it seems, however, a lot left to learn. And then there's the matter of reconciling multiple accurate perceptions of reality that nevertheless differ. The allegory of the blind men and the elephant, for instance.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. Philip K. Dick
I've always liked this quote. Especially when applied to virtual reality.
 
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RileyG

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Let's say, my favorite color is blue and my favorite meal is fried chicken.

My friend's favorite color might be black and her favorite meal is steak.

Both are "reality" to us, just different opinions and taste?

Or am I thinking too much about this subject?

Subjective vs objective reality?
 
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essentialsaltes

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Let's say, my favorite color is blue and my favorite meal is fried chicken.

My friend's favorite color might be black and her favorite meal is steak.

Both are "reality" to us, just different opinions and taste?

Or am I thinking too much about this subject?

Subjective vs objective reality?
I'll defer to the philosophers to untangle this properly, but I would look at it from this standpoint, with regards to Truth.

"Riley believes fried chicken is the best meal in the world."
"Riley's friend believes steak is the best meal in the world."

These statements can both be true, because they are statements about you and your friend's beliefs. Assuming you're sincere in stating these things, they are true in that they match your beliefs. And they don't contradict because they refer to the beliefs of two different people.

But a statement like "Steak IS the best meal in the world." is some sort of attempted value judgment about the entire universe/reality. I don't believe it can be categorized as true or false. If you believed it, and your belief 'went away' as in Dick's aphorism, there would be no one to make this value judgment(*).

Perhaps more briefly, the original two statements are subjective truths, in that they express an opinion of a particular subject, rather than a universal truth about something 'out there' in reality.

(*) Theists might suppose God was around to make these judgments. In Genesis, Noah burns clean animals and clean fowl as an offering and God finds the aroma pleasing, so steak and fried chicken are possibly both in the running.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Subjective truth is only true when discussing a specific topic.

Objective truth is like a monolith falling from the sky screaming at you, "TRUTH! TRUTH!" ...

okay jokes are out of my system.

===

Good discussion on reality. My question is: What if we all view the same reality, but don't perceive the same thing? (we both agree we see the color red, but there is no guarantee we see the same thing) Is it then the same reality?
 
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Ophiolite

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Do we just need to "trust" that it is real, in the same way we are?
No. We can simply say, "This appears to be real, and - from a practical standpoint - if I act as if it is real, so far it continues to turn out as expected. I might as well continue acting as if it is real, until something happens to make me reconsider."
 
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Gregory Thompson

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No. We can simply say, "This appears to be real, and - from a practical standpoint - if I act as if it is real, so far it continues to turn out as expected. I might as well continue acting as if it is real, until something happens to make me reconsider."
So it is subjectively real.
 
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durangodawood

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Does reality exist separate from those who perceive it? How is this proven?

Do we just need to "trust" that it is real, in the same way we are?
Are you aware of the arguments for and against solipsism?

Personally, I think solipsism is a ridiculous position to take. But thats "just me". HahaHahAha.
 
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Larniavc

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