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I anticipate Trump pulling ANY aid for Ukraine when Zelenskyy inevitably rejects Trump's farcical 'deal'.

Larniavc

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What is your solution about the Russia & Ukraine war which Ukraine is clearly losing?
Give Ukraine the weapons to beat Russia. That is the only way this ends. Otherwise Russia will keep trying to take it’s former satellites by force.

Incidentally I was thoroughly impressed with Mt Trump failing to make a deal with Russia about Ukraine but totally getting the big W for not giving away Alaska.
 
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Larniavc

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The diplomatic solution is ending the war as soon as possible without any more people dying.
Not so. What you’ve done there is to confuse a diplomatic solution with Ukrainian surrender and Russian victory.

Which is easy to say when you personally do not have to live under Russian rule.

Do you see now?
 
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Larniavc

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In my opinion, it appears that your solution would bring about either a forever war, OR possibly WWIII.
You wouldn’t give up Alaska to end the war would you?
 
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Larniavc

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Putin is evil and he was wrong to invade Ukraine. Millions Russians and Ukrainians are paying the price for this war. A 3 year war which Putin is still winning despite all the military aid from the USA and Europe going to Ukraine. How much longer and how many more lives are we prepared to lose?
If Russia wins the war with Ukraine we will be in the same position with another former USSR satellite in about five years.

Have you never read a novel where all the good countries refuse to send troops to defend a good country against the evil horde? Then they realise that the evil horde will just keep coming picking them off one by one but it’s too late?

Do you think Russia will stop with Ukraine?
 
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Infirmus

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Trump: If there is no ceasefire after the meeting, there will be horrible consequences! RAAAWRR!!! My wrath will be horrible RAAWRR!!!

*there is no ceasefire after the meeting*

Trump: It was a brilliant meeting - 10 out of 10. Amazing meeting. Lovely meeting. I withhold from applying further sanctions on Russia.
 
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mark46

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If Russia wins the war with Ukraine we will be in the same position with another former USSR satellite in about five years.

Have you never read a novel where all the good countries refuse to send troops to defend a good country against the evil horde? Then they realise that the evil horde will just keep coming picking them off one by one but it’s too late?

Do you think Russia will stop with Ukraine?
And now the young think of WWII as fiction.
===================
Ukraine needs two things out of a "peace" deal: borders guaranteed by European countries and the ability to buy the weapons to needed defend itself and attack foreign bases. Peace is not really peace any more than the deal ending the Korean War. It would simply be a cease- fire with a buffer zone guaranteed by foreign countries.

Ukraine lost the territories the moment that the West allowed Russia to take Crimea. It was only a matter of time before Russia took the Russian-speaking Dambas and a Southern land link from Russia to the Crimea. Certainly, there will be bargaining regarding the exact border, but the key issue is security. Of course, the West promised security before when we forced Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons.
=========
And yes, Trump would have avoided the war by giving Russia almost all the territory it has won in the war. Ukraine lost all its casualties not for land but for security. NATO is much stronger and has added two countries. The European countries are spending more on defense and a are much more unified against Russia (except for Hungary). They might NOW be willing to guarantee security. Ukraine has gained a lot, as has Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Moldova. After Russia took Crimea, it was simply a matter of what territory Russia would take next. There is the possibility that Russia will be stopped for a longer time now. And, yes, Russia will make economic deals with Trump, but probably NOT with other European countries. They now KNOW who their enemy is, and what will happen if they lower their guard.
 
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eclipsenow

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You wouldn’t give up Alaska to end the war would you?
What a great idea!
Maybe Trump could make THAT DEAL!?

"Leave Ukraine - because I can't do anything about their constitution. But because I'm the President of the USA and don't care about our OWN Constitution - maybe I've got something to offer you instead!?"
 
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eclipsenow

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And now the young think of WWII as fiction.
===================
Ukraine needs two things out of a "peace" deal: borders guaranteed by European countries and the ability to buy the weapons to needed defend itself and attack foreign bases. Peace is not really peace any more than the deal ending the Korean War. It would simply be a cease- fire with a buffer zone guaranteed by foreign countries.

Ukraine lost the territories the moment that the West allowed Russia to take Crimea. It was only a matter of time before Russia took the Russian-speaking Dambas and a Southern land link from Russia to the Crimea. Certainly, there will be bargaining regarding the exact border, but the key issue is security. Of course, the West promised security before when we forced Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons.
=========
And yes, Trump would have avoided the war by giving Russia almost all the territory it has won in the war. Ukraine lost all its casualties not for land but for security. NATO is much stronger and has added two countries. The European countries are spending more on defense and a are much more unified against Russia (except for Hungary). They might NOW be willing to guarantee security. Ukraine has gained a lot, as has Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Moldova. After Russia took Crimea, it was simply a matter of what territory Russia would take next. There is the possibility that Russia will be stopped for a longer time now. And, yes, Russia will make economic deals with Trump, but probably NOT with other European countries. They now KNOW who their enemy is, and what will happen if they lower their guard.
Russia's economy is about the size of Texas. They've lost a million soldiers and who knows how many million workers fleeing the country. The war of attrition IS hurting them.

Are you really suggesting the entire economic resources of NATO cannot keep giving Ukraine support until the attrition wears Russia down and they leave Ukraine?
 
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mark46

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Russia's economy is about the size of Texas. They've lost a million soldiers and who knows how many million workers fleeing the country. The war of attrition IS hurting them.

Are you really suggesting the entire economic resources of NATO cannot keep giving Ukraine support until the attrition wears Russia down and they leave Ukraine?
NATO countries can sustain Ukraine indefinitely if they can give Ukraine the missiles to attack the bases from which Russia attacks.
 
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eclipsenow

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NATO countries can sustain Ukraine indefinitely if they can give Ukraine the missiles to attack the bases from which Russia attacks.
All sorts of kit and tricks.

Correction: I might have exaggerated the soldier ratio above.

More recent stats show the Ukrainian losses are about 4:10 ratio - 400k to Russia's million fatalities.

But with so many Russians fleeing Russia - the drain on their economy is significant.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Nobody was expecting one, though.
Not even Trump - who said it was a preliminary meeting and he was not expecting to make a deal.

Trump proven right again!
 
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Always in His Presence

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Russia's economy is about the size of Texas. They've lost a million soldiers and who knows how many million workers fleeing the country. The war of attrition IS hurting them.
Ever wonder why a country with 500% more people and land mass 24 times the size of Texas with resource dwarfing the state is doing so badly? Anyone ever wonder why?
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Not even Trump - who said it was a preliminary meeting and he was not expecting to make a deal.

Trump proven right again!
Trump who said he could end the war in 24 hours wasn’t expecting to get a ceasefire out of the meeting?
 
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Always in His Presence

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mark46

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Trump who said he could end the war in 24 hours wasn’t expecting to get a ceasefire out of the meeting?
Of course not. He just said that he expected (75%) to get a cease fire and if he didn't, he would immediately put sanctions on Russia.
========
But, let's be patient. Trump is only about 200 days late on his promise to end the war in 24 hours. Let's see what another week brings. The rumors are that the deal includes at least giving Putin the Dambas (and probably recognizing their taking of Crimea).

The tradeoff will be security guarantees as it was when Ukraine gave up its nukes.

It all sounds good, but Putin has no intention of permanently stopping the fighting. At least, Ukraine needs guarantees that Europe will provide weapons capable of attacking Russian bases. Putin is unlikely to accept that.

I suppose that Putin might pause for a few years while he rebuilds his army and gets ready for next time.
 
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