Who is really responsible for Salvation?

FutureAndAHope said:

"He" could very well be an angel. For there are many scriptures that tell us plainly the church is on the earth. The people who refuse the mark of the beast, are Christians, sons of God. Do they not have the Holy Spirit?

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An angel does not have the power to restrain sin but the HS does. The great apostasy cannot happen with the HS protecting Christians.

BTW- no one is arguing about the church not being here. That’s another discussion for another day.

FutureAndAHope said:

The passage is actually stating there is no difference between the way Greek and Jew are saved.

Rom 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."​

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Right. Because it doesn’t matter whether the people had the law or not salvation is always by the grace AOC God through faith.

FutureAndAHope said:

It then straight after that states how a person who sin is made blind.

Rom 1:18-21 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.​

Gentiles have always been saved by faith, see Naaman, Ruth (the Moabite), Rahab (the harlot).

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Right. Which is why these verses relate only to gentiles and not to Jews. Did you not see the parallels to Sodom and Gomorrah?

FutureAndAHope said:

You feel that the following only applies to the last day sinner.

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It applies to the time of the great apostasy. Depending on what you believe what follows is the coming of Jesus or the coming of Jesus to begin His thousand year reign. This is then eschatology not soteriology.

FutureAndAHope said:

But why would they need some special blindness? The reason is because without the strong deception, they would believe, and be saved. But God does not want them saved because they delight in sin. This shows people are not "first" blinded, rather it is a result of their life style.

2Th 2:11-12 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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Read the verses that preceed the ones you posted.

“that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭2‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The deception is because they did not accept the love of the truth. You have it backwards.

FutureAndAHope said:

It talks about "men" not Gentiles.

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Where?

FutureAndAHope said:

Rom 1:18-21 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

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And? What men? Is not translated as mankind is it?

ETA: You do know that all that lived before Moses are gentiles right? Even after the Jews, the vast majority of the world was the gentiles, right?

FutureAndAHope said:

Yes, true, they did not believe, but what did they do "but had pleasure in unrighteousness." The fact is they "could have believed", but God had to send them delusion, so they would not believe. SO the scripture is stating.

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That is not what the verses teach. Before the delusion they chose death in Christ So the delusion is the result of their unbelief.

FutureAndAHope said:

1Sa 2:30 Therefore the LORD God of Israel says: 'I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.' But now the LORD says: 'Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.

​

Firstly, it shows that God's plan is not fixed, that when He decrees a thing, He does change His mind, based upon man's actions. If everything was predestined, then He would "know all things", and would never have made the statement.

Secondly, it shows there is an action of man's that brings God's honor, or displeasure.

for those who honor Me I will honor​

and

and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed​

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Dear FutureAndAHope,

You quoted:
1Sa 2:30 Therefore the LORD God of Israel says: 'I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.' But now the LORD says: 'Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.

To believe that this scripture supports the Doctrine of Free Will is adding things to the scripture that it does not say.

Here is how Christ teaches:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Christ teaches His truth "here a little, and there a little". The scripture you quoted is completely silent on how it comes about for a person to "honor Me" or "despise Me". You ASSUME that it comes from a person's supposed free will ability but that is not true. When we look to other scripture (here a little, there a little), we find that when a person honors Christ or despises Christ, they do so because it was caused by the Lord.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Deut 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you a heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I see believers add to scripture in the way you have done quite often. If a verse is silent on some aspect of what it is teaching, we should not add our assumptions to the verse to fill in the void. We MUST look to other scriptures to fill in the silent part of the verse.

After a person understands that Christ controls mankind's "will" and gives mankind "the answer from their tongue", it is much easier to accept that all mankind will someday accept Christ as their Lord and Savior since scripture clearly says that Christ will cause it to happen.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The problem for most believers who reject the truth that Christ will save all mankind is that they believe that mankind must make a free will decision to accept Christ or not. But according to God's Word, mankind has no such ability to accept Christ apart from Christ causing it to happen.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

When Christ is ready to begin the spiritual process of salvation within a person, He will come to them and freely give them the small measure of the Holy Spirit. He does so without their asking or permission. Why? Because of what this scripture says:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

In the farming analogy, the small measure of the Spirit is called the Early Rain. In the marriage analogy, it is what makes a person into a "virgin" who is espoused to Christ.

It was the Early Rain of the Spirit that caused the Apostles to know that Jesus was the Christ and to have the desire to call Him "Lord". It was the Early Rain that caused Paul to fall to his knees on the Damascus Road and accept Christ as his Lord.

The verse below applies to the Early Rain of the Spirit and is why the Apostles & Paul were empowered to call Jesus "Lord" BEFORE they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain):

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Without the Spirit indwelling a person (even just a small measure), no person can call Jesus their Lord. Because Christ must give the Spirit to a person before they can make a confession of faith, He alone controls who will be saved and when they will be saved. The individual person has no say in the matter. Since this is how salvation comes to a person, scripture says it is a free gift from God and that mankind has no works to perform to have it. Mankind does not even have to "receive it" as I frequently hear others teach. Salvation is given to a person because will was God's "will" for them to have it.

In this age, Christ is only saving those persons whom God decided before the foundation of world to bless with an early salvation. They are called the Elect, the Bride, the saints, the chosen, the heirs of Abraham, etc. Christ is not working to save anyone else at this time. Since He is not working to save anyone else, no one else will be saved except those who were chosen to be blessed.

But since the Father sent Christ to save the world (1John 4:14) and because God loves all mankind, Christ will not forget about those who remain unsaved.

In the next and final age, Christ and His Bride will judge the balance of mankind in the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol that represents Christ's judgment. It is not literal fire.

Here is how Christ will judge the lost in the Lake of Fire:

The penalty of sin is death - but before any of the lost who are condemned to death perish by Christ's judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them. His mercy will come to each lost person by giving them both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit, each person will have faith and will be born again. The newly born child of God will then be gathered to heaven leaving only the child of the Devil (who they used to be) to perish in the Lake of Fire. This death satisfies justice.

The entire process of saving a person I just explained above is called conversion. Conversion requires Christ to give a person both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by judgment to destroy the child of the Devil. Each Elect person in this age is saved this way before they die. The "lost" in the Lake of Fire will also be saved this way with one change to the steps. The lost will begin their time of judgment while they are still a child of the Devil. The Elect's judgment will begin they have been born as a child of God. Because of this change, the Elect will not experience wrath during their time of judgment but the lost in the Lake of Fire will. But in the end, everyone will be saved and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven just as God's Word proclaims they will.

These verses apply to Christ's judgment:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Joe

d taylor said:

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I am completely against Calvinism, but this is a sad statement about the people who came directly after the Apostles. That is, if they did believe that actions determined if people are saved and that our actions either good or bad determine if we are saved.

No wonder Calvinism and election came about, one incorrect theology going against another incorrect works based theology of good and evil being the determiner of a person eternal life salvation.

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And in Eph 1;4 SAYS , Just as HE , CHOSE // ELECTION , for Himself in HIM. , BEFORE // PRO , the overthrow. of the WORLD

for us to be holy and overthrow of the world for us to be holy and without blemish BEFORE // PRO Him in love. !

It means OSAS !!

dan p

FutureAndAHope said:

No, not everyone will be saved.

Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

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Dear FutureAndAHope,
Christ is only saving the Elect during this age. As a result, the balance of mankind will be cast into the Lake of Fire upon their resurrection just as the verse you quoted states. However, Christ's judgment is NOT like mankind's judgment. Christ will have mercy upon the lost prior to their death (the penalty of sin).

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

You are missing Christ's love and mercy that He ALWAYS shows to His enemies.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Mat 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Christ's work of saving mankind continues until the last of mankind is saved. There are no scriptures that state differently. The "lost" of the final age will lose the rewards that the Elect will receive but they will still be saved as Paul firmly states in the scripture below.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

"Fire" is a spirit word that mean's judgment. It does not mean the same thing as what man's wisdom teaches:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

Your understanding of Christ's judgment omits justice, mercy and faith. Christ will not omit them when He judges the "lost".

To believe as you do, you have to remove many, many scriptures from God's Word. As I pointed out in my first post, Christ teaches His truth "here a little and there a little". You should not be adding your assumptions to God's Word. You should be looking to other scripture to fill in the silent parts a verse.

Here is the verse you quoted:

Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

You have added to the verse your assumption that those who are cast into the Lake of Fire (judgment) will never be shown mercy and faith by Christ before they perish. This belief of yours is not true and is proven to not be true when we look to other scripture.

Where does Mat 25:41 state that Christ will not show mercy and faith to those He is judging? It is not in the scripture.

One final point. Consider this verse below:

John 3:18 He (the child of God) that believeth on him is not condemned: but he (the child of the Devil/all mankind) that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Because all mankind are sinful children of the Devil, mankind is "cursed" and "condemned already". Because this is the true state of all mankind, it is necessary for Christ to give mankind a new spiritual birth prior to each person's destruction. The spiritual process that Christ uses to make this spiritual change within a person is called conversion. Conversion will destroy the child of the Devil in the Lake of Fire. But the newly born child of God will be removed from that judgment before the individual perishes. It is only the child of the Devil who is destroyed. It is in this way that Christ will save all mankind - and it happens solely by His work which cannot fail.

Consider this scripture below on the judgment portion of conversion:

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (Word of God) will the LORD plead with all flesh (all mankind): and the slain of the LORD shall be many (all mankind).

All mankind will cease to exist after Christ's judgment of mankind is complete but the Kingdom of Heaven will be that much fuller.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Do you have the faith to believe Christ can accomplish what 1Tim 2:3-6 states?

Joe

FutureAndAHope said:

Calvinism paints a picture of a God who preplanned the salvation of each individual, that the number that was to be saved was fixed before creation, and that the will or actions of man play no part in man's eternal destiny. As stated in The Westminster Confession of Faith:

God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death. These angels and men, thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed; and their number is so certain and definite that it can not be either increased or diminished. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace….The rest of mankind, God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by, and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice. (Westminster Divines, 2021)​

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The idea (above) of God fixing destinies was not believed for the first 400 years of recorded Christian history. Those who came directly after the Apostles believed our actions determine if we are saved. The Earliest Church Leaders believed in Free Will theology. The idea that we work in Synergy with God, that our actions, either good or evil, determine if we are saved. Making statements like:

1. This expression [of our Lord], “How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,” (Mat 23:37) set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. (Irenaeus [A.D. 120-202], Against Heresies - Book 4 Ch 37)​

​

So what am I posting today? Well, I was doing my daily Bible reading, and came across the following which supports the Free Will, argument.

1Sa 2:30 Therefore the LORD God of Israel says: 'I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.' But now the LORD says: 'Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.​

​

Firstly, it shows that God's plan is not fixed, that when He decrees a thing, He does change His mind, based upon man's actions. If everything was predestined, then He would "know all things", and would never have made the statement.

Secondly, it shows there is an action of man's that brings God's honor, or displeasure.

for those who honor Me I will honor​

and

and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed​

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"How omnipotent do you believe God to be? Scripture affirms that He is all-powerful (Jeremiah 32:17; Revelation 19:6) and sovereign over all creation (Psalm 115:3).


Does He have to wait to be despised or honored in order to be pleased or displeased? God is not subject to time as we are; He declares “the end from the beginning” (Isaiah 46:9–10) and knows the thoughts and intents of the heart before we act (Psalm 139:1–4; Hebrews 4:13).


Or does God know all things in all time before they ever happen? The Bible teaches that God’s knowledge is perfect and complete (Psalm 147:5; 1 John 3:20). He sees the future as clearly as the past (Isaiah 42:9).


Did God know beforehand all those who will be saved and all those who will be lost? Jesus said He knew His sheep before they came to Him (John 10:14–16), and Paul affirms that those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son (Romans 8:29). Yet this foreknowledge does not imply ignorance before events occur.


My current thinking is that God is omnipotent and knew beforehand who would respond and who would not, but that still does not mean He predetermined it. While God’s foreknowledge is certain (Acts 15:18), Scripture also shows that He calls all to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) and that His desire is for all to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3–4).


Nor did He manipulate anyone against their will. The invitation is freely given (Matthew 11:28; Revelation 22:17), and people are responsible for their response (Joshua 24:15).


All are invited to freely surrender their will to Him and be saved, yet many love darkness more than light. Jesus Himself said that “men loved darkness rather than light” (John 3:19–20).


In short, I do not believe that God’s foreknowledge is the causation of damnation for anyone, but it is those who reject God’s offer who are given what they wish for. Scripture affirms that those who refuse God’s grace face judgment by their own choice (Romans 1:18–21; Proverbs 29:1), and that God ultimately honors the decisions people make (Romans 2:5–8)."

GreatMysteryofChrist said:

Dear FutureAndAHope,

You quoted:
1Sa 2:30 Therefore the LORD God of Israel says: 'I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.' But now the LORD says: 'Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.

To believe that this scripture supports the Doctrine of Free Will is adding things to the scripture that it does not say.

Here is how Christ teaches:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Christ teaches His truth "here a little, and there a little". The scripture you quoted is completely silent on how it comes about for a person to "honor Me" or "despise Me". You ASSUME that it comes from a person's supposed free will ability but that is not true. When we look to other scripture (here a little, there a little), we find that when a person honors Christ or despises Christ, they do so because it was caused by the Lord.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Deut 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you a heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I see believers add to scripture in the way you have done quite often. If a verse is silent on some aspect of what it is teaching, we should not add our assumptions to the verse to fill in the void. We MUST look to other scriptures to fill in the silent part of the verse.

After a person understands that Christ controls mankind's "will" and gives mankind "the answer from their tongue", it is much easier to accept that all mankind will someday accept Christ as their Lord and Savior since scripture clearly says that Christ will cause it to happen.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The problem for most believers who reject the truth that Christ will save all mankind is that they believe that mankind must make a free will decision to accept Christ or not. But according to God's Word, mankind has no such ability to accept Christ apart from Christ causing it to happen.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

When Christ is ready to begin the spiritual process of salvation within a person, He will come to them and freely give them the small measure of the Holy Spirit. He does so without their asking or permission. Why? Because of what this scripture says:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

In the farming analogy, the small measure of the Spirit is called the Early Rain. In the marriage analogy, it is what makes a person into a "virgin" who is espoused to Christ.

It was the Early Rain of the Spirit that caused the Apostles to know that Jesus was the Christ and to have the desire to call Him "Lord". It was the Early Rain that caused Paul to fall to his knees on the Damascus Road and accept Christ as his Lord.

The verse below applies to the Early Rain of the Spirit and is why the Apostles & Paul were empowered to call Jesus "Lord" BEFORE they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (the Latter Rain):

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Without the Spirit indwelling a person (even just a small measure), no person can call Jesus their Lord. Because Christ must give the Spirit to a person before they can make a confession of faith, He alone controls who will be saved and when they will be saved. The individual person has no say in the matter. Since this is how salvation comes to a person, scripture says it is a free gift from God and that mankind has no works to perform to have it. Mankind does not even have to "receive it" as I frequently hear others teach. Salvation is given to a person because will was God's "will" for them to have it.

In this age, Christ is only saving those persons whom God decided before the foundation of world to bless with an early salvation. They are called the Elect, the Bride, the saints, the chosen, the heirs of Abraham, etc. Christ is not working to save anyone else at this time. Since He is not working to save anyone else, no one else will be saved except those who were chosen to be blessed.

But since the Father sent Christ to save the world (1John 4:14) and because God loves all mankind, Christ will not forget about those who remain unsaved.

In the next and final age, Christ and His Bride will judge the balance of mankind in the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol that represents Christ's judgment. It is not literal fire.

Here is how Christ will judge the lost in the Lake of Fire:

The penalty of sin is death - but before any of the lost who are condemned to death perish by Christ's judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them. His mercy will come to each lost person by giving them both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit, each person will have faith and will be born again. The newly born child of God will then be gathered to heaven leaving only the child of the Devil (who they used to be) to perish in the Lake of Fire. This death satisfies justice.

The entire process of saving a person I just explained above is called conversion. Conversion requires Christ to give a person both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by judgment to destroy the child of the Devil. Each Elect person in this age is saved this way before they die. The "lost" in the Lake of Fire will also be saved this way with one change to the steps. The lost will begin their time of judgment while they are still a child of the Devil. The Elect's judgment will begin they have been born as a child of God. Because of this change, the Elect will not experience wrath during their time of judgment but the lost in the Lake of Fire will. But in the end, everyone will be saved and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven just as God's Word proclaims they will.

These verses apply to Christ's judgment:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Joe

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While God’s love and mercy are vast (Psalm 103:8–12; John 3:16), Scripture consistently teaches that salvation is conditional upon repentance and faith in Christ (John 3:18; Mark 1:15). The idea that all will be saved—often called universalism—contradicts the clear warnings of eternal separation from God for those who reject Him (Matthew 25:46; 2 Thessalonians 1:8–9).

Jesus Himself spoke of two distinct destinies: the narrow way that leads to life and the broad way that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13–14). Revelation describes a final judgment where those not found in the Book of Life are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15).

God truly desires that all be saved (1 Timothy 2:3–4), yet He does not force salvation upon anyone. Love by compulsion is not love at all. Those who persist in rejecting His Son remain under condemnation (John 3:36).

Thus, while God’s invitation is universal, the Bible affirms that its acceptance is not.

FutureAndAHope said:

As for God's foreknowledge, I have thought about it a little. I like to look at it from observing the natural world, and combining it with the word of God.

Basically, using natural principals we know it is theoretically possible to move through time, in both a forward and backward direction. This would allow an infinitely powerful God to transfer knowledge of time, to the beginning of time. But for this to occur, time itself has to have happened. So until creation was initialised God may not have known everything about creation. We see at times in the Bible God appears to not know everything at a given point in time. This hints to the fact that God Himself, at a point in time, was experiencing the restrictions of time.

Gen 6:5-7 Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the LORD said, "I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

The above scripture at least shows that God "saw" something He had previously not known. I see this a pointing to the fact that man has genuine free will (within time), but God being greater than time, can communicate all of His knowledge of the choices man makes, to the beginning. He could in theory know who was going to be saved, what they would do in their lives etc.

God could "I guess" modify, our timeline, using His foreknowledge, but He chooses to let it play out.

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Interesting point of view. I enjoyed reading it.