Trump wants to evict homeless from Washington

BCP1928 said:

But nobody has noticed the dark humor in the President's order to "evict the homeless."

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Maybe "oust the homeless" would have been more appropriate wording?

jacks said:

Maybe "oust the homeless" would have been more appropriate wording?

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"the law, in its majestic equality, prohibits the rich as well as the poor from sleeping under bridges" --Anatole France

BCP1928 said:

"the law, in its majestic equality, prohibits the rich as well as the poor from sleeping under bridges" --Anatole France

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"There is a leisure class at both ends of the financial spectrum." --My sister who has been on welfare most of her adult life.

Akita Suggagaki said:

And yet they are our brothers and sisters. "Wherever you do to the least of my people..."

But what are we to do besides ship them out of our sight?

In our little community people complain about the soup kitchen because it seems to attract more homeless

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Thats the problem……nobody wants to look at it but they have to go somewhere. Trump can’t just kick them out.

FaithT said:

Thats the problem……nobody wants to look at it but they have to go somewhere. Trump can’t just kick them out.

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Yes he can. He is kicking them out because people are offended by their presence. Neither he nor the people who are offended by their presence cares what happens after that.

BCP1928 said:

Yes he can. He is kicking them out because people are offended by their presence. Neither he nor the people who are offended by their presence cares what happens after that.

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Oh, he thinks he can do anything he wants to.

BCP1928 said:

Right, so the way to solve the problem must be to treat them all the same and evict them. But nobody has noticed the dark humor in the President's order to "evict the homeless."

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Oh yes, I've just got it! Dark though as homelessness is terrible.

jacks said:

You make some very good points. I've always thought that part of the problems is the label "homeless". It lumps a very diverse group of people together under a single banner. People are living on the street for a variety of reasons, so any single solution is domed for failure. Perhaps some sort of triage that attempts to find the actual cause, would be beneficial. Possible groups or combinations could include in no particular order.

• Mental Illness
• Drug/Alcohol addiction
• Temporarily out of a job, but willing and able to work.
• Preferred lifestyle
• Disabled
• And others I'm sure.

Obviously if we treat everyone the same and pretend if only we give them cheap housing and free food, everything will be fine, we are bound to fail. We need first to identify the cause, before we can treat the problem.

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Your bullets could describe a significant number of people who, by virtue of them having a place to live, aren’t “homeless” and would the only difference betwixt the groups?

BCP1928 said:

Yes he can. He is kicking them out because people are offended by their presence. Neither he nor the people who are offended by their presence cares what happens after that.

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The Spin©️:
“President Trump is inviting the homeless to be free, ‘elsewhere’!”

jacks said:

What ever we are currently doing to solve the "homeless" crisis, it isn't working. Time for some new ideas.

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Ironically, you don't need new ideas. "Housing First" initiative was invented in the US and was shown to work really well with dealing with homelessness AND the related issues with drugs/alcohol/etc that were the cause or caused by homelessness. It was just never implemented outside small tests and a few smaller areas. Partially that it requires money to set up (less though than continuing to deal with homelessness the current way) and partially because of biases against homeless people.

jacks said:

You make some very good points. I've always thought that part of the problems is the label "homeless". It lumps a very diverse group of people together under a single banner. People are living on the street for a variety of reasons, so any single solution is domed for failure. Perhaps some sort of triage that attempts to find the actual cause, would be beneficial. Possible groups or combinations could include in no particular order.

• Mental Illness
• Drug/Alcohol addiction
• Temporarily out of a job, but willing and able to work.
• Preferred lifestyle
• Disabled
• And others I'm sure.

Obviously if we treat everyone the same and pretend if only we give them cheap housing and free food, everything will be fine, we are bound to fail. We need first to identify the cause, before we can treat the problem.

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You are not wrong in your list. I interact with and help feed roughly 60 to 100 homeless every month as part of a local ministry.

A one other group would be people that were on the edge, and then "something" happened to tip them into homelessness. It could be a single mom whose car broke down. She couldn't afford to get it fixed, lost her job, lost her apartment, etc. A domino effect. The elderly that are on the edge can hit this as well. We had 2 ladies in their 60's-70's this week. No drugs, no mental illness, clean records, too old or disabled to work - but now nowhere to go so they live in their cars.

You are also correct about the "combo effect" - Drugs and mental illness being the most prevalent combo I see. There are also a few "semi-functioning addicts" They may pull it together enough to get a job, but the addiction always puts them on the street again sooner or later.

I admit, I do not know what the answer is. But, I do not think it is a "1 size fits all problem".

For example, the physically fit young man that was covered in tattoos, stoned out of his mind and having a conversation with the utlity pole likely needs one solution. However, the elderly lady who has worked her entire life and has no mental illness or addiction issues and is currently living out of her car likely needs a different solution. Oh - and before someone says "public housing" for the elderly ladies. They are "on the list". However, the list is long and wait times can be 1 year before something comes available and the few local shelters are full.

BCP1928 said:

Right, so the way to solve the problem must be to treat them all the same and evict them. But nobody has noticed the dark humor in the President's order to "evict the homeless."

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There is only one correct application of the word "evict."

Our schools have failed us. . .

Pommer said:

The Spin©️:
“President Trump is inviting the homeless to be free, ‘elsewhere’!”

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Hey, you know how the farmers are having problems getting agricultural workers these days for some reason? Conscript the DC homeless! Two birds, one stone!

DaisyDay said:

Hey, you know how the farmers are having problems getting agricultural workers these days for some reason? Conscript the DC homeless! Two birds, one stone!

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That's actually not the worst idea...

Ultimately, when it boils down to either occupational challenges or addiction challenges...I'm definitely in favor of their being some sort of mandatory treatment for the latter.

For the former, while I think I'd stop short of full-blown conscription, I could see merit in exploring some aspects of the Japanese system which could be described as a "conditional housing-first model". Where they recognize that step one is getting them off the street and into somewhere relatively stable, but do have some conditions/demands for conduct and expectations that they'll make an earnest effort to improve their situation with self-sufficiency being the ultimate goal. (which does include accepting short term transitional housing, followed by compulsory participation in addiction support and vocational support programs)


The fact that we've relegated ourselves into a situation where the only two options we're presented with are
A) cut no-strings attached checks indefinitely just so they're not on the street
or
B) deal with having 800k "free-range homeless" across our major cities


This notion that we have to give the homeless have 100% agency and be in charge of their own path and accept help only on their own terms because "we have to preserve their dignity" is somewhat farcical.

If someone is either strung out and engaging in open-air drug use, having a nervous breakdown in the park, relegated to offering sexual favors in exchange for money, or defecating on the sidewalk, I think we're looking at dignity in the rearview mirror at that point. And people need to be real about the fact that some people will simply never make that decision on their own.


We even treat it very differently between the homeless and the housed when you think about it.

If I got popped for my 5th public intoxication charge in a year, or had to get the police called 5 separate times in one year for having a mental health breakdown in a restaurant from refusal to take meds, a judge would order me into some sort of treatment program, and I wouldn't be given an option. (and most of society would agree with the Judge's decision)

However, if I was homeless and doing the same (with much greater frequency), the prevailing thought among advocacy groups is "we can't force him into treatment, it has to be his decision and it's important that we wait around and just provide the support he needs until he's ready to make that choice so he can keep his dignity"


When you look at the behaviors, mental health state, and addiction patterns of a substantial portion of the homeless, they're basically like the Tiger-Blood era Charlie Sheen just without the bank account...and nobody had a problem with judges ordering him into involuntary treatment and counselling and nobody suggested that there should be inaction in the name of letting him keep his dignity and "making it his decision"

DaisyDay said:

Hey, you know how the farmers are having problems getting agricultural workers these days for some reason? Conscript the DC homeless! Two birds, one stone!

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Some homeless would refuse due to severe mental illness or simply not wanting to work.

FaithT said:

Some homeless would refuse due to severe mental illness or simply not wanting to work.

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Sure, or due to physical impairment or not wanting to move away from friends, family and everything they know to work on a farm as slave labor - involuntary servitude is slavery. My other post was meant to be sarcastic if that wasn't clear.

DaisyDay said:

Sure, or due to physical impairment or not wanting to move away from friends, family and everything they know to work on a farm as slave labor - involuntary servitude is slavery. My other post was meant to be sarcastic if that wasn't clear.

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Ok

DaisyDay said:

Sure, or due to physical impairment or not wanting to move away from friends, family and everything they know to work on a farm as slave labor - involuntary servitude is slavery. My other post was meant to be sarcastic if that wasn't clear.

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Regardless of how sarcastic your previous post was meant to be, it was still closer to being a feasible long-term solution than what some homeless advocacy orgs recommend. (which is "Let's just allocate funds to give people free apartments forever and wait for them to make the decision to get treatment")

ThatRobGuy said:

Regardless of how sarcastic your previous post was meant to be, it was still closer to being a feasible long-term solution than what some homeless advocacy orgs recommend. (which is "Let's just allocate funds to give people free apartments forever and wait for them to make the decision to get treatment")

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... Who actually advocates EXACTLY that? Sounds like a strawman.

7thKeeper said:

... Who actually advocates EXACTLY that? Sounds like a strawman.

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Housing First is built on two core principles:

1. Immediate access to permanent housing without requiring preconditions like sobriety, mental health treatment, or employment.
2. Consumer choice and self-determination, meaning that once housed, individuals can decide when or whether to engage in treatment programs for substance use, mental health, or other issues.