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No, Israel is not starving poor Gazan children. Don't buy the fake news lies

rebornfree

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I would find it hard to disbelieve those who have come back from Gaza, to the UK, and who describe what they have seen with their own eyes. This includes well respected journalists. They report that civilians are starving and the aid workers are getting malnourished. There are fewer hubs for the collection of food than under the UN scheme, so people weak with hunger have to travel further than before. When aid is dropped by plane there is a scramble to get to it and people are getting hurt. The situation requires a proper distribution network. This is an appalling crisis and the world needs to take notice.
 
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Why do you support Israel? Do you support human rights? The declaration of Israel in 1948 by a minority of the population in Palestine was a violation of the Palestinian's human right to self-determination. Also, a nation for Jewish people, or any other religious group, is a violation of the human right to freedom of religion. It is not exactly separation of church and state. It is Israel's human rights violations that have caused war in Palestine for the past 77 years. There is no need for anyone to coexist with Israel because Israel doesn't deserve to exist. As a Christian, I support human rights, and I therefore oppose Israel.
 
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Hentenza

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Why do you support Israel? Do you support human rights? The declaration of Israel in 1948 by a minority of the population in Palestine was a violation of the Palestinian's human right to self-determination. Also, a nation for Jewish people, or any other religious group, is a violation of the human right to freedom of religion. It is not exactly separation of church and state. It is Israel's human rights violations that have caused war in Palestine for the past 77 years. There is no need for anyone to coexist with Israel because Israel doesn't deserve to exist. As a Christian, I support human rights, and I therefore oppose Israel.
The antisemitism oozes from this post. Not to mention the historical ignorance. Tell me, how does the founding of Israel violates the non nation of Palestine? Didn’t Palestine have 1800 years to set up their state and they failed to do so? Does the world have a separation of church and state law?
 
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A New Dawn

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Why do you support Israel? Do you support human rights? The declaration of Israel in 1948 by a minority of the population in Palestine was a violation of the Palestinian's human right to self-determination. Also, a nation for Jewish people, or any other religious group, is a violation of the human right to freedom of religion. It is not exactly separation of church and state. It is Israel's human rights violations that have caused war in Palestine for the past 77 years. There is no need for anyone to coexist with Israel because Israel doesn't deserve to exist. As a Christian, I support human rights, and I therefore oppose Israel.
Israel has been the homeland of the Jewish people for thousands of years. It matters not what kind of nation they make it. It is only against OUR Constitution in America that prevents us from setting up a national religion.

And it’s not a nation just for Jews. There are actually a lot of Palestinians that live in Jerusalem in peace because they don’t want to be part of the forever wars that are present in Gaza and other Middle Eastern countries. They live in peace and Israel protects them, as they would protect all who want to live in peace.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Why do you support Israel? Do you support human rights? The declaration of Israel in 1948 by a minority of the population in Palestine was a violation of the Palestinian's human right to self-determination. Also, a nation for Jewish people, or any other religious group, is a violation of the human right to freedom of religion. It is not exactly separation of church and state. It is Israel's human rights violations that have caused war in Palestine for the past 77 years. There is no need for anyone to coexist with Israel because Israel doesn't deserve to exist. As a Christian, I support human rights, and I therefore oppose Israel.

I'm curious: which Middle Eastern countries have human rights, freedom of religion, or separation of church and state? Americans and many in the West often judge other countries by our own standards. There is no freedom of religion throughout the Middle East—so why single out Israel on its approach to separating church and state?

Perhaps we should evaluate Israel and its neighbors by their own standards to determine which system is better.

Which Middle Eastern country allows citizens to choose their government, grants equal rights to men and women, ensures equality for Christians, Jews, and Muslims under the law, and recognizes all citizens as equal regardless of sexual orientation or gender? If you support human rights, you'll know which Middle Eastern country to support.
 
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I'm curious: which Middle Eastern countries have human rights, freedom of religion, or separation of church and state? Americans and many in the West often judge other countries by our own standards. There is no freedom of religion throughout the Middle East—so why single out Israel on its approach to separating church and state?

Perhaps we should evaluate Israel and its neighbors by their own standards to determine which system is better.

Which Middle Eastern country allows citizens to choose their government, grants equal rights to men and women, ensures equality for Christians, Jews, and Muslims under the law, and recognizes all citizens as equal regardless of sexual orientation or gender? If you support human rights, you'll know which Middle Eastern country to support.
 
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Thanks for your response. Your statement confirms that Israel is a violation of human rights. Yes, exactly, we agree.

You go on to say that other countries also violate human rights, which is true. Yes, there are human rights violations all around the globe. The point is to condemn violations of human rights wherever they are found.
However, Israel is a special case, especially for Americans. The only reason Israel exists is because it is supported by the U.S. military. So we the people in the U.S. have an exceptional opportunity to stop the war, death, and suffering that Israel has caused.

Israel also stands apart in that the declaration of Israel in 1948 was made by a group that was a minority in Palestine, and thus violated the rights of the majority in Palestine. The declaration was not only a violation of human rights, but an act of war, and it started a war immediately.

Yes, there are other states in the Middle East and around the world that have restrictions on religion. They deserve censure. But the states weren't the result of a minority of the country trampling on the rights of the majority. That makes Israel special.

Christians, in Europe and in the U.S., have mostly supported Israel. That is an eternal stain on the Christian religion. Denouncing Israel is an exceptional way for Christians to show that they do indeed support human rights.

Agree?
 
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The antisemitism oozes from this post. Not to mention the historical ignorance. Tell me, how does the founding of Israel violates the non nation of Palestine? Didn’t Palestine have 1800 years to set up their state and they failed to do so? Does the world have a separation of church and state law?
 
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That is your response? I'm a bad person because I hate Jews? You left out calling me a Nazi, racist, bigot, and misogynist. If you are going the ad hominem route, you should be thorough.

I was taught the ad hominem logical fallacy in the fifth grade. I vividly remember thinking, "But no one would ever commit the fallacy because if they do, they are just admitting they can't win the argument."

Well, Justice, welcome to the adult world, where ad hominem is pervasive, especially where discussions of Israel are involved. There is no intellectual defense of Israel based on facts, logic, and reasoning. We know that to be true because the first reaction of any criticism of Israel is usually to accuse the criticizer of being a bad person.

You may not understand the ad hominem fallacy. I suggest you look it up. Here, I'll help you to understand:

"An ad hominem fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone attacks the person making an argument instead of addressing the argument itself. It's a way to try to discredit a viewpoint by attacking the character, motives, or other irrelevant attributes of the person making the claim, rather than engaging with the substance of their argument.

Ad hominem attacks are fallacious because the character, motives, or other irrelevant qualities of the person making an argument do not invalidate the argument itself. A valid argument stands on its own merits, regardless of who is presenting it."

I will add that character attacks, especially antisemitism, is just a means to bully someone into agreeing with an opinion. The irony is that when used, it says more about the character of the one making the accusation than the one being assailed.

However, I laugh at attempts to bully. I know what they represent. And I can overlook the comment.

You seem to be interested in history. The declaration of Israel in 1948 was done with the support of a minority of the population in Palestine. That was a violation of the human right of the majority of people in Palestine to self-determination. The Palestinian's human right has been violated to this day.

Since you are knowledgeable about history, are you not aware of this violation?

Also, you mentioned separation of church and state. Do you agree with that concept? You seem to think that violations of that concept are perfectly acceptable, since there is no world law against it. Why?
 
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Israel has been the homeland of the Jewish people for thousands of years. It matters not what kind of nation they make it. It is only against OUR Constitution in America that prevents us from setting up a national religion.

And it’s not a nation just for Jews. There are actually a lot of Palestinians that live in Jerusalem in peace because they don’t want to be part of the forever wars that are present in Gaza and other Middle Eastern countries. They live in peace and Israel protects them, as they would protect all who want to live in peace.
 
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The fact is, the declaration of Israel in 1948 was for a "Jewish State", which has been referred to as a nation for Jews. The declaration was made by a group representing the minority of the Palestinian population, and was thus a violation of the majority population's human right to self-determination.

Where people lived thousands of years ago is irrelevant. It is fascinating that there are currently those opposing Trump's deportation of illegals by claiming that Hispanics lived in the land long before there was the United States, and therefore the United States has no right to deport illegals. Do you agree with that?

A little lesson on human rights: human rights start anew every day. What happened a thousand years ago is irrelevant to the fact that humans have rights that deserve protection, today.

The right to self-determination of a people also begins anew every day. That is, the right of "we the people" to determine our government is renewed every day. That is one reason the writers of the U.S. Constitution in their wisdom allowed for amendments, or change, and periodic elections.

Your comment about Palestinians living in peace in Israel is funny. Explain that to the estimated 700,000 Palestinians who fled Palestine in 1948 because the declaration of Israel was an act of war and started a war. Of course, you can't explain it to most of them, but there is a United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). UNRWA actually provides services for nearly 6 million. Maybe you can find some of those and explain how beneficial Israel has been to the people of Palestine.

You mentioned that the U.S. Constitution provides protection against a national religion. Do you think that is good idea? That is, I take it you support the concept of separation of church and state. Is that true? If so, isn't it a little hypocritical to be supporting a state that was declared as a Jewish state?

Moreover, I have seen news reports of how Christians are assailed in Israel. In fact, I just googled this: "Recent reports indicate an increase in attacks and harassment targeting Christians in Jerusalem, particularly within the Old City. These incidents include physical assaults, vandalism of religious sites, and restrictions on Christian celebrations. Reports suggest that these acts are often linked to extremist Jewish groups and that the Christian community feels increasingly vulnerable."

What is your response?
 
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Hentenza

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That is your response? I'm a bad person because I hate Jews? You left out calling me a Nazi, racist, bigot, and misogynist.
I said that your post oozed antisemitism not that you were antisemitic. Do you actually hate the Jews? Let’s start with that before we continue any kind of conversation.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Thanks for your response. Your statement confirms that Israel is a violation of human rights. Yes, exactly, we agree.

You go on to say that other countries also violate human rights, which is true. Yes, there are human rights violations all around the globe. The point is to condemn violations of human rights wherever they are found.
However, Israel is a special case, especially for Americans. The only reason Israel exists is because it is supported by the U.S. military. So we the people in the U.S. have an exceptional opportunity to stop the war, death, and suffering that Israel has caused.

Israel also stands apart in that the declaration of Israel in 1948 was made by a group that was a minority in Palestine, and thus violated the rights of the majority in Palestine. The declaration was not only a violation of human rights, but an act of war, and it started a war immediately.

Yes, there are other states in the Middle East and around the world that have restrictions on religion. They deserve censure. But the states weren't the result of a minority of the country trampling on the rights of the majority. That makes Israel special.

Christians, in Europe and in the U.S., have mostly supported Israel. That is an eternal stain on the Christian religion. Denouncing Israel is an exceptional way for Christians to show that they do indeed support human rights.

Agree?

I disagree with all your points except one: Israel would not exist without US military support.

Jews in Europe would not exist without the support of United States. Without the US military, there wouldn’t be any Jews left in Europe by the time Hitler’s army done with their extinction. Similar events would have taken place in the Soviet Union under Stalin.

Israel would not exist without the support of the United States military. You are right about that! Do you know why ?

Without US military protection, the Arab nation would have acted as Halter’s army did. They would have sent them to extinction.

Without US military support, no Arab nation would have made peace with Israel. Understanding this is essential to grasping Arab politics, culture, and religion.

Christians' support for Israel:

Anyone who follows the Bible and understands scripture will support Jews and Israel, even if they are wrong, because that is what God does.

They are God's chosen people; despite their shortcomings and disobedience, God has repeatedly punished and forgiven them, consistently embracing them as His own. In Romans, Paul advises Christians not to boast about receiving God's grace over Jews, reminding them that Jews are the root and Christians are only a branch. Paul states that, despite Jewish disobedience and rejection of Christ, they remain God’s chosen people and will be restored at the appointed time.

Christians who wish to oppose Israel may do so at their own discretion. I do not consider myself holier-then-thou, nor would I presume to question why God, in His wisdom, repeatedly forgives and offers special consideration to Jews

Romans 11:1-6 “ I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.”.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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The fact is, the declaration of Israel in 1948 was for a "Jewish State", which has been referred to as a nation for Jews. The declaration was made by a group representing the minority of the Palestinian population, and was thus a violation of the majority population's human right to self-determination.

Where people lived thousands of years ago is irrelevant. It is fascinating that there are currently those opposing Trump's deportation of illegals by claiming that Hispanics lived in the land long before there was the United States, and therefore the United States has no right to deport illegals. Do you agree with that?

A little lesson on human rights: human rights start anew every day. What happened a thousand years ago is irrelevant to the fact that humans have rights that deserve protection, today.

The right to self-determination of a people also begins anew every day. That is, the right of "we the people" to determine our government is renewed every day. That is one reason the writers of the U.S. Constitution in their wisdom allowed for amendments, or change, and periodic elections.

Your comment about Palestinians living in peace in Israel is funny. Explain that to the estimated 700,000 Palestinians who fled Palestine in 1948 because the declaration of Israel was an act of war and started a war. Of course, you can't explain it to most of them, but there is a United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). UNRWA actually provides services for nearly 6 million. Maybe you can find some of those and explain how beneficial Israel has been to the people of Palestine.

You mentioned that the U.S. Constitution provides protection against a national religion. Do you think that is good idea? That is, I take it you support the concept of separation of church and state. Is that true? If so, isn't it a little hypocritical to be supporting a state that was declared as a Jewish state?

Moreover, I have seen news reports of how Christians are assailed in Israel. In fact, I just googled this: "Recent reports indicate an increase in attacks and harassment targeting Christians in Jerusalem, particularly within the Old City. These incidents include physical assaults, vandalism of religious sites, and restrictions on Christian celebrations. Reports suggest that these acts are often linked to extremist Jewish groups and that the Christian community feels increasingly vulnerable."

What is your response?


Palestinians lived in Palestine for thousands of years before Joshua crossed the Jordan River. But that was God who promised them the land. do you reject God’s plan?



And below are just a few about Jews returning to their land.



Jeremiah 16:15

but it will be said, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their ancestors.”



Ezekiel 36:24

‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.



Amos 9:14-15

and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[a]

“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”

says the Lord your God.
 
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stevevw

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The media can be used to highlight one side over the other. Compare the fake picture used to cast Isreal in a bad light and the one of Israeli hostage Evyatar David looking like a human skeleton trapped in a tunnel digging his own grave.

We hear little about the plight of the hostages or the real evil that has been committed. Thats because it doesn't suit the narrative of painting Isreal as the bad guys. Its not even handed reporting.

Think about it. Its in Hamas's interest to do everything possible to stop the Palestinians getting help. The more they can make them suffer the more they know they can win a proporganda war and continue their radicalism.
 
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Does that time frame equal the amount of years the Palestinians have absolute hatred towards Jews? Of course, the answer is, Yes.
There is good reason for Palestinians to have hatred for the Jews. In 1948, Jews were 1/3 of the population of Palestine when they declared Israel. The declaration was a denial of the right of the majority of Palestinians to self-determination. The declaration was an act of war, and it has caused wars, death, and suffering ever since. Anyone, anywhere, would have hatred when their human rights are violated. There was much hatred in toward the Japanese in the U.S. after Pearl Harbor was bombed. It is just human nature to react when your country is attacked.
 
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Palestinians lived in Palestine for thousands of years before Joshua crossed the Jordan River. But that was God who promised them the land. do you reject God’s plan?



And below are just a few about Jews returning to their land.



Jeremiah 16:15

but it will be said, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’ For I will restore them to the land I gave their ancestors.”



Ezekiel 36:24

‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land.



Amos 9:14-15

and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[a]

“They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,”

says the Lord your God.
Is it God's plan to violate human rights? I believe it is ridiculous to claim that God's plan is to violate human rights. This is where Christians are going astray, to say the least. There is no consideration for human rights, which is to say that humans have human rights, and they should be respected by Christians.

My original question was why do you support Israel? Your second answer is that you believe it is God's plan. That is, you support Israel because of your theology. Here is the problem: your theology conflicts with human rights. I have a different theology: Christians should respect human rights.

One of those human rights is the freedom of religion. That means Christians don't have the right to force their religion on others. That is called treating people the way you want to be treated. Do you agree with treating others the way you want to be treated? Is that in your definition of God's plan?

Do you want someone forcing their religion on you? Of course, the answer is no. Don't lie. The truth is your theology is irrelevant. I don't care about your theology, any more than you care about mine, which is zero. And that is fine, we disagree on theology. People inevitably disagree on theology, and everything else. That is why the right to freedom of religion is a human right. Neither of us has a right to force our theology on others.

So, our disagreement is that you want to force your theology on others, specifically the Palestinians, while I want to respect the Palestinian's, and all other people's, right to self-determination and freedom of religion. Is that right?
 
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Hentenza

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There is good reason for Palestinians to have hatred for the Jews. In 1948, Jews were 1/3 of the population of Palestine when they declared Israel. The declaration was a denial of the right of the majority of Palestinians to self-determination. The declaration was an act of war, and it has caused wars, death, and suffering ever since. Anyone, anywhere, would have hatred when their human rights are violated. There was much hatred in toward the Japanese in the U.S. after Pearl Harbor was bombed. It is just human nature to react when your country is attacked.
The British mandate, after ww1, tasked the creation of the nation of Israel. In 1947, the UN propose the plan that partition the area between Arabs and Jews. Israel was formed and immediately the Arabs attacked. This is the short version of the history that you ignored.

Secondly, the Arabs living in Palestine had almost 1800 years to create their own state but did not. The Palestinians have never had their own country.

Enter Hamas. During the early 90’s the PLO and Israel signed the Oslo Accords which brought hope to finally have a resolution including the two state solution. Sadly as the area became radicalized the negotiations stalled. When Hamas came into the picture they rejected the Oslo Accords and began attacking Israel with suicide bombers and rockets leading to the 2008 to 2014 campaign. We know how that one turned out.

Fast forward to 2023 and the October 7 attacks. Israel vowed to fully destroy Hamas. War is a horrible thing and causes civilian deaths but the root cause is Hamas just like the root cause for the destruction of Tokyo was the fault of the Japanese. Look up operation meetinghouse and compare the pictures and casualty numbers.

So just as the Japanese were at fault for their own destruction do is Hamas at fault for all of the deaths and destruction in Gaza.
 
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The British mandate, after ww1, tasked the creation of the nation of Israel. In 1947, the UN propose the plan that partition the area between Arabs and Jews. Israel was formed and immediately the Arabs attacked. This is the short version of the history that you ignored.
How do you think Americans would react if the government of another country carved out a portion of the United States and gave the land to foreigners despite American opposition to this plan?

Secondly, the Arabs living in Palestine had almost 1800 years to create their own state but did not. The Palestinians have never had their own country.
This may come as a surprise, but modern nation-states are a relatively recent concept.

Enter Hamas. During the early 90’s the PLO and Israel signed the Oslo Accords which brought hope to finally have a resolution including the two state solution. Sadly as the area became radicalized the negotiations stalled. When Hamas came into the picture they rejected the Oslo Accords and began attacking Israel with suicide bombers and rockets leading to the 2008 to 2014 campaign. We know how that one turned out.
The suicide bombings by Hamas and Islamic Jihad following the signing of the Oslo Accords were in direct response to the Ibrahimi Mosque massacre. It was Israeli settlers that opposed the peace process.

The massacre at the Cave of the Patriarchs30 Palestinians killed and more than 120 wounded by automatic gunfire from Baruch Goldstein at the Cave of the Patriarchs on the morning of Purim (and the middle of Ramadan) on February 25, 1994

Provocation to provoke a Palestinian response has always been a cornerstone of the settlers' method of expanding their control. And this time – also according to his wife's testimony – Goldstein's goal was to destroy the Oslo Accords with a massacre that would require revenge. This is what happened in the past: the massacre of the convoy of doctors and nurses to Hadassah on April 13, 1948, in which 77 Jews were murdered, came immediately after the Deir Yassin massacre by the Irgun and Lehi, four days earlier. The settlers internalized and perfected the method.

Hamas and Jihad mobilized for revenge and portrayed Arafat and the PLO as neglecting the defense of their people. After a period of significant calm following the signing of the Oslo Accords, the massacre in the cave sparked a series of revenge attacks unparalleled since the War of Independence. 164 Israelis were murdered in eight bomb attacks, all by Hamas and Jihad, all inside Israel, all from explosive belts and IEDs. The facts did not confuse the settlers who mobilized to dance on the blood and call Rabin a "traitor" for "Rabin gave them guns." After all, the goal - the elimination of Rabin and Oslo - sanctifies lies.


WEST BANK MASSACRE: AT LEAST 40 SLAIN IN WEST BANK AS ISRAELI FIRES INTO MOSQUE; CLINTON MOVES TO RESCUE TALKS -- NEW CLASHES LIKELY.

On the bloodiest day in the occupied territories since Israel captured them in 1967, a Jewish settler killed at least 40 and possibly 50 Palestinians and wounded an estimated 150 others today, spraying them with automatic rifle fire as they knelt together in prayer at a shrine venerated by both Muslims and Jews.

The gunman, Dr. Baruch Goldstein, a 37-year-old resident of Qiryat Arba, opened fire on the Muslim worshipers at dawn in a mosque at the Cave of the Patriarchs in the tinderbox West Bank city of Hebron. The terrorist attack came as the victims were gathered to offer prayers as part of Ramadan, the Muslim holy month of fasting.

The Brooklyn-born settler, a follower of the anti-Arab Rabbi Meir Kahane, was apparently beaten to death by the worshipers after they overcame their initial terror.

The massacre touched off Palestinian rioting and clashes with Israeli soldiers that claimed about 10 Arab lives elsewhere in Hebron and other parts of the Israeli-occupied territories.

The massacre of the Muslim worshipers in Hebron sent shock waves through the Middle East and beyond, raising fears for the Israeli-Palestinian peace accord and prompting President Clinton to summon both sides to Washington for nonstop negotiations aimed at keeping the peace effort alive.

The chairman of the P.L.O., Yasir Arafat, described the killings as a "true blow to the peace process."

An armed wing of Hamas, the militant Islamic group, warned of reprisals for the Hebron massacre. In leaflets distributed in Gaza City, it said: "Our response will not take long."



Fast forward to 2023 and the October 7 attacks. Israel vowed to fully destroy Hamas. War is a horrible thing and causes civilian deaths but the root cause is Hamas
Hamas is only a symptom of decades of injustices against Palestinians. It's the failure to address these injustices that's the root cause of this current conflict.
 
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