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Trump wants to evict homeless from Washington

Akita Suggagaki

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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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I read yesterday , that he wants to put homeless people in a long term institution, it's supposed to be nice. But I doubt it will be nice on the inside. More like our of sight, out of mind. Homeless people are are undesirable looking . Upper middle class and rich people don't want to see ugly things.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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I read yesterday , that he wants to put homeless people in a long term institution, it's supposed to be nice. But I doubt it will be nice on the inside. More like our of sight, out of mind. Homeless people are are undesirable looking . Upper middle class and rich people don't want to see ugly things.
Also, over half of them have drug addictions, mental illness, or both.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Also, over half of them have drug addictions, mental illness, or both.
Possibly true.

The question is how best to manage them.

According to the National Coalition for the Homeless, substance abuse is more prevalent in people who are homeless than in those who are not. In many instances, substance abuse is the result of the stress of homelessness, rather than the other way around. Many people begin using drugs or alcohol as a way of coping with the pressures of homelessness. https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/addiction-statistics-demographics/homeless
 
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ozso

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I read yesterday , that he wants to put homeless people in a long term institution, it's supposed to be nice. But I doubt it will be nice on the inside. More like our of sight, out of mind. Homeless people are are undesirable looking . Upper middle class and rich people don't want to see ugly things.
Like the nice hotels they've been housed in for free, they'll completely trash the inside. That's how they operate. That's what happens to the downtown area of the small city I live in. Even with daily clean up crews there's trash and articles of clothing strewn about, lots of half eaten food containers laying around, and excrement and vomit. Us poor working class don't like looking at it either.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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And yet they are our brothers and sisters. "Wherever you do to the least of my people..."

But what are we to do besides ship them out of our sight?

In our little community people complain about the soup kitchen because it seems to attract more homeless.
 
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ozso

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And yet they are our brothers and sisters. "Wherever you do to the least of my people..."

But what are we to do besides ship them out of our sight?

In our little community people complain about the soup kitchen because it seems to attract more homeless.
I'm sure most of society would rather see these people well off living a nice life than being out on the sidewalks. But I've watched interviews of homeless people and heard what social workers have had to say, and a lot of them are resistent to a better way of life because that would require meeting certain standards and giving up certain things and taking responsibility. Proverbs speaks pretty harshly against those sorts of people. There's a difference between someone who's destitute though no fault of their own and those who put themselves on the road of destruction.

As for what is to be done, I think everything that can be done is in place. But again, many who can benefit from it refuse to go along with what is necessary to obtain it. On a support forum I've been on for many years there was a homeless man always asking for a handout or a favor. And one member who is a social worker went out of her way to help him, and he proved to be impossible to help. He wouldn't go along with anything she arranged for him. Apparently all he wanted was handouts and favors and was insistent on carrying out a self-destructive lifestyle.
 
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Nithavela

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What ever we are currently doing to solve the "homeless" crisis, it isn't working. Time for some new ideas.
Yeah, new ideas. Like workhouses.
 
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Larniavc

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Larniavc

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But I've watched interviews of homeless people and heard what social workers have had to say, and a lot of them are resistent to a better way of life because that would require meeting certain standards and giving up certain things and taking responsibility.
Because of mental health issues America is unprepared to support them with.
 
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BCP1928

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I'm sure most of society would rather see these people well off living a nice life than being out on the sidewalks. But I've watched interviews of homeless people and heard what social workers have had to say, and a lot of them are resistent to a better way of life because that would require meeting certain standards and giving up certain things and taking responsibility. Proverbs speaks pretty harshly against those sorts of people. There's a difference between someone who's destitute though no fault of their own and those who put themselves on the road of destruction.

As for what is to be done, I think everything that can be done is in place. But again, many who can benefit from it refuse to go along with what is necessary to obtain it. On a support forum I've been on for many years there was a homeless man always asking for a handout or a favor. And one member who is a social worker went out of her way to help him, and he proved to be impossible to help. He wouldn't go along with anything she arranged for him. Apparently all he wanted was handouts and favors and was insistent on carrying out a self-destructive lifestyle.
What are you going to do with those who have a job? Are they going to be hauled off as well?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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What ever we are currently doing to solve the "homeless" crisis, it isn't working. Time for some new ideas.

Ultimately, I don't know what can be done to address it that wouldn't incentivize other people to milk the system, or that wouldn't be labelled "mean" by half the country.

If involuntary institutionalizing (for mental health and/or drug addiction) is off the table for being considered "unfair, and infringing on their dignity"
And trying to put 800k people up in no-strings attached "we'll pay your cost of living forever" arrangement isn't feasible and would lead to abuse (which it would)

Then we don't have a lot of options in the tool belt.


There are a few key statistics that shines a spotlight on what I feel needs to be explored more:
A 2016 study of homeless adults in Los Angeles found that around 40% had some form of family or friend connection but chose not to live with them.

And according to the National Alliance to End Homelessness, among homeless youth, 30-50% come from homes that were relatively stable before becoming homeless.


Especially on the "youth homeless" homeless front... there should be some sort of process or something that dictates that if an LEO comes across a homeless 17 year old, and there's no proven reason why they shouldn't be returned home to their parents, then that's what needs to happen. (and by valid reason, I mean things like abuse)

If there wasn't abuse happening, and the reason they skipped town was "I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted drugs/sex/etc... but my parents wouldn't let me because they just don't get me man!", then that's not a valid excuse, sorry, you're going back to your parents' house in Iowa.

And if the reason they're opting not to live with the friend or family member is because and offer was made, but stipulated with "but you're not going to be doing hard drugs while you live here", then mandatory drug addiction treatment is the solution.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Yet another reason why we shouldn't have the seat of our federal government and federal administrative district doubling as a "regular residential city"


DC's problems could be solved if they treated it like the "Olympic Villages". Unless you have an official reason to be there... you shouldn't be. And tightly control who's coming and going.

...but I realize that ship has sailed.
 
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Ophiolite

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What are you going to do with those who have a job? Are they going to be hauled off as well?
"Don't be silly. Obviously these untrustworthy, drug addicted, job-shy, ill-kempt homeless people don't have jobs! "
 
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jacks

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Ultimately, I don't know what can be done to address it that wouldn't incentivize other people to milk the system, or that wouldn't be labelled "mean" by half the country.
You make some very good points. I've always thought that part of the problems is the label "homeless". It lumps a very diverse group of people together under a single banner. People are living on the street for a variety of reasons, so any single solution is domed for failure. Perhaps some sort of triage that attempts to find the actual cause, would be beneficial. Possible groups or combinations could include in no particular order.
  • Mental Illness
  • Drug/Alcohol addiction
  • Temporarily out of a job, but willing and able to work.
  • Preferred lifestyle
  • Disabled
  • And others I'm sure.
Obviously if we treat everyone the same and pretend if only we give them cheap housing and free food, everything will be fine, we are bound to fail. We need first to identify the cause, before we can treat the problem.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Obviously if we treat everyone like if only we give them cheap housing and free food, everything will be fine, is too simplistic. We need first to identify the cause, before we can treat the problem.
Correct, and for the bullet point list you provided... I think we as a society need to come to grips with the fact that "good for society" and "preserve their personal dignity" is a zero sum game especially with regards to the mental illness and drug addiction aspects.

While well-intentioned, this notion that we have to wait around until a person with a severe mental illness or drug addiction decides it's "their decision to seek treatment" to "preserve their dignity" is foolish when you think about it through a lens of public policy making.

Mainly because a large percentage of that group will never make decision on their own, and won't get help unless someone makes that decision for them.

If a person is in the grips of an episode of their mental illness, or deep in the grips of drug addiction, they're not thinking clearly, leaving the decision up to them in almost any other context would be blatantly stupid.

For instance, if a bipolar person was in a manic phase, nobody would say "now's the right time to hand them the AMEX card and let them buy what they see fit", or tell their heroin addicted cousin "hey, keep an eye on my iPhone and wallet while I go to the bathroom". Yet, a portion of society seems to want to assign them that level of agency for much larger matters like "do you want to use your money for housing, or this other stuff"
 
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BCP1928

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You make some very good points. I've always thought that part of the problems is the label "homeless". It lumps a very diverse group of people together under a single banner. People are living on the street for a variety of reasons, so any single solution is domed for failure. Perhaps some sort of triage that attempts to find the actual cause, would be beneficial. Possible groups or combinations could include in no particular order.
  • Mental Illness
  • Drug/Alcohol addiction
  • Temporarily out of a job, but willing and able to work.
  • Preferred lifestyle
  • Disabled
  • And others I'm sure.
Obviously if we treat everyone the same and pretend if only we give them cheap housing and free food, everything will be fine, we are bound to fail. We need first to identify the cause, before we can treat the problem.
Right, so the way to solve the problem must be to treat them all the same and evict them. But nobody has noticed the dark humor in the President's order to "evict the homeless."
 
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