Gaza: In the face of horror, we cannot look away.

rjs330 · 2025-08-10T02:24:44-0500

rambot said:
Now here may be where your communication style needs work...and has a Trumpian flavour.

You write one sentence saying one thing and a whole post justifying the opposite.

Please explain where in the rest of the post I said anything justifying the actions. If you cant quote me justifying it then you should apologize for being so wrong about what I said.

rambot said:
So while in your head you may believe you have a peoblem with Israel's actions, you did spend the whole just justifying them.

Not once did I justifying them.

What I did was advise you that there is a LARGE difference between what Hamas does when using those actions and what Israel does.

Your hatred of Israel is coloring your judgement. They don't operate the exact same way. How do I know? Because they didn't fire at or kill anyone which cannot be said of Hamas.

Ophiolite · 2025-08-10T05:08:02-0500

rjs330 said:
If you cant quote me justifying it then you should apologize for being so wrong about what I said.

rjs330 said:
What I did was advise you that there is a LARGE difference between what Hamas does when using those actions and what Israel does.

By way of an FYI, your emphasis on the large difference between the Israeli actions and those of Hamas comes across as defending, and thus justifying, Israel. Protest all you will, that remains the impression your words have created. @rambot simply offers you advice, as do I, so that you may not be misunderstood. (One of the comments in my signature addresses this sort of problem.)

You might also want to reflect on rambot's alleged "hatred of Israel". I cannot speak for him, but I hate the current actions of the Israeli government, while admiring in the long view, much about Israel. Perhaps his position is similar.

ViaCrucis · 2025-08-10T11:24:11-0500

rjs330 said:
People are being manipulated. The press in Gaza is under the control of Hamas. They are manipulating the photos. Propaganda at work.

Big Gaza photo scandal: Top agencies drop photographer over shocking staged hunger images

A Gazan photographer, Anas Zayed Fteiha, faces scrutiny after a German investigation revealed he staged hunger-themed photographs. Major European agencies have severed ties with him due to ethical concerns. The controversy reignites debate about media ethics, potential bias, and the dangers of...

m.economictimes.com

Photos of hunger and despair from Gaza were staged in collaboration with Hamas, German newspaper reveals

Süddeutsche Zeitung revealed photos of Gazans holding empty pots posing in front of photographers, and not in line for food aid; Bild noted that one of the photographers was employed by a Turkish news agency, and posts anti-Israel content on social media; While the paper acknowledges that...

www.ynetnews.com

So if our choices are between Hamas propaganda and Israeli state propaganda, then perhaps the solution is to have independent international journalists.

Have outside, independent journalists report honestly.

Israel: Grant international media access to Gaza and protect journalists now - ARTICLE 19

Israel must allow international media access to Gaza, and protect Palestinian journalists reporting on the ground.

www.article19.org

-CryptoLutheran

rjs330 · 2025-08-10T12:23:50-0500

Ophiolite said:
By way of an FYI, your emphasis on the large difference between the Israeli actions and those of Hamas comes across as defending, and thus justifying, Israel. Protest all you will, that remains the impression your words have created. @rambot simply offers you advice, as do I, so that you may not be misunderstood. (One of the comments in my signature addresses this sort of problem.)

You might also want to reflect on rambot's alleged "hatred of Israel". I cannot speak for him, but I hate the current actions of the Israeli government, while admiring in the long view, much about Israel. Perhaps his position is similar.

If the tables were reversed in this situation, and Hamas were in Israel doing the same thing those Isrealis were doing they would have had a lot of Isrealis in front of them and would be shooting all the bystanders and then it the end shot the shop keeper.

If you fail to recognize the difference then you have no understanding.

Its the difference between punching some one in the face and giving them a black eye and beating them to a bloody pulp. Both instances are wrong. But they are not equal. To try and make them equal is nonsensical. And often prejudicial.

rjs330 · 2025-08-10T12:37:58-0500

ViaCrucis said:
So if our choices are between Hamas propaganda and Israeli state propaganda, then perhaps the solution is to have independent international journalists.

Have outside, independent journalists report honestly.

Israel: Grant international media access to Gaza and protect journalists now - ARTICLE 19

Israel must allow international media access to Gaza, and protect Palestinian journalists reporting on the ground.

www.article19.org

-CryptoLutheran

Only if you have independent journalists from all sides. Far too many journalists these days are leftists and belong to leftist organizations. And there are most certainly journalists on the right who belong to conservative organizations. I say they should pair up.
But then both Israel and Hamas could set up things they want them to see. Let them hear the stories they want them to hear, not even knowing if they are true. Both sides are being accused of lying and propegandizing.

But perhaps if journalists HAD to team up, one from the left and one from the right we might actually find a more honest report.

ViaCrucis · 2025-08-10T13:22:57-0500

rjs330 said:
Only if you have independent journalists from all sides. Far too many journalists these days are leftists and belong to leftist organizations. And there are most certainly journalists on the right who belong to conservative organizations. I say they should pair up.
But then both Israel and Hamas could set up things they want them to see. Let them hear the stories they want them to hear, not even knowing if they are true. Both sides are being accused of lying and propegandizing.

But perhaps if journalists HAD to team up, one from the left and one from the right we might actually find a more honest report.

Ignoring the general attack on journalism as being "leftist"; I'd be absolutely fine to have outside, independent journalists teaming up from different media. The goal should be objective journalism.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · 2025-08-10T13:24:02-0500

rjs330 said:
If the tables were reversed in this situation, and Hamas were in Israel doing the same thing those Isrealis were doing they would have had a lot of Isrealis in front of them and would be shooting all the bystanders and then it the end shot the shop keeper.

If you fail to recognize the difference then you have no understanding.

Its the difference between punching some one in the face and giving them a black eye and beating them to a bloody pulp. Both instances are wrong. But they are not equal. To try and make them equal is nonsensical. And often prejudicial.

Would you accuse Israelis of using their children as shields if it was Hamas killing kids?

-CryptoLutheran

rjs330 · 2025-08-10T18:38:38-0500

ViaCrucis said:
Would you accuse Israelis of using their children as shields if it was Hamas killing kids?

-CryptoLutheran

Hamas IS killing kids and HAS killed kids ON PURPOSE. They walked up to them and shot them in the head. No one was shooting at them, no one was attacking them. They were just simple kids who rhey murdered just for fun.

Ophiolite · 2025-08-10T18:59:16-0500

rjs330 said:
If the tables were reversed in this situation, and Hamas were in Israel doing the same thing those Isrealis were doing they would have had a lot of Isrealis in front of them and would be shooting all the bystanders and then it the end shot the shop keeper.

If you fail to recognize the difference then you have no understanding.

Its the difference between punching some one in the face and giving them a black eye and beating them to a bloody pulp. Both instances are wrong. But they are not equal. To try and make them equal is nonsensical. And often prejudicial.

Your response has addressed points I did not make. To reiterate: several of your posts give the impression that you are defending the Israeli actions. I don't think you intend that, but that is how it comes across. If you are comfortable to be thought to be doing so, carry right on as you are going, since you have it well nigh perfected.

rjs330 · 2025-08-10T19:26:22-0500

Ophiolite said:
To reiterate: several of your posts give the impression that you are defending the Israeli actions.

No they didnt. People who thought that know i am a Israel supporter. What they ASSUMED was I support absolutely everything and anything they do. While they are anti-Israel and also believe every bit of Hamas propaganda.

Until you or someone else can actually offer quotes from my post that in anyway justifies what the soldiers did, I am going chalk it up to a biased assumption that has no basis in reality.

Ophiolite · 2025-08-10T19:38:54-0500

rjs330 said:
No they didnt. People who thought that know i am a Israel supporter. What they ASSUMED was I support absolutely everything and anything they do. While they are anti-Israel and also believe every bit of Hamas propaganda.

Until you or someone else can actually offer quotes from my post that in anyway justifies what the soldiers did, I am going chalk it up to a biased assumption that has no basis in reality.

I would appreciate it if you not tell me what I think! I have told you that your words gave me a specific impression, not "people", or "they". (Though we know at least one other person has formed the same impression.) I made no assumptions. I read what you had written and formed an impression from your words. My impression was - and remains - that you were defending the Israeli actions. This is now the third time I have told you this. I shall not be wasting my time for a fourth attempt to get that very simple idea through to you.

Now, I started out with intention and hope that by pointing out that the way you had phrased your position could lead to misunderstanding. I have now reached the conclusion that you are so locked into some deluded agenda that any reasonable argument is beyond you. Fortunately I don't need to read annymore of your rants.

stevevw · 2025-08-10T20:08:04-0500

I think media or the control of media is part of the problem in that its hyperfocused on everything and we are now having blow by blow images of war. I remeber this with the first !raqi war and how you could sit in your lounge room and watch the war virtually live as it happened. This is a new phenomena which can be good or bad.

Good in that it exposes the evil but bad in that media is a powerful tool and can be used in a way that can distort the truth. Depending on the political and ideological beliefs one has as to what is hyperfocused and part of an agenda or narrative being pushed.

I think if we put the same hyper focus on many situations in the world we will find evil. So it all depends on what is being highlighted. For example right now Christian persecution around the world and especiaklly in Muslim nations is reaching real genocidal levels. Yet we hear hardly a whimper about this.

Or Muslims being wiped out by other Muslims factions in Africa that has been happening for decades. Wheres all the moral outrage for these situations on the same level as against the Jews.

Why did not these social justice warriors protest and block streets when Islamists have been trying to exterminate Isreal for 100s of years now.

Media should report what's happening in Gaza, not run Hamas propaganda

Media should report what's happening in Gaza, not run Hamas propaganda | Opinion

A misleading news photograph buoyed the narrative that Israel is at fault for blocking aid from flowing to Palestinians in need.

www.usatoday.com

Persecution of Christians 'coming close to genocide' in Middle East – report

Persecution of Christians 'coming close to genocide' in Middle East – report

Millions uprooted from homes, says UK-commissioned report, with many jailed and killed

www.theguardian.com

ViaCrucis · 2025-08-11T06:55:37-0500

rjs330 said:
Hamas IS killing kids and HAS killed kids ON PURPOSE. They walked up to them and shot them in the head. No one was shooting at them, no one was attacking them. They were just simple kids who rhey murdered just for fun.

And just so we're clear, when Hamas kills children, it's Hamas' fault--correct? Because targeting children--murdering children--is wrong. No matter who does it, correct? Can we agree that murdering children is always evil?

-CryptoLutheran

public hermit · 2025-08-11T07:13:49-0500

‘Give us the flour - or we will kill you’: Gaza’s starving face impossible choices

To get a bag of flour for his starving three children, Nedal AbuSharbi arms himself with a knife to protect against thieves and prepares to be shot by the Israeli military.

There is so little food in Gaza - which is in the grip of famine due to a punishing Israeli blockade and the war - that lawlessness has taken over around the land crossings where the few aid trucks are able to get in.

Now, the desperation is more acute with news that, rather than returning to the negotiating table, Israel is to widen its already devastating offensive and take full military control of the besieged Strip, starting with the remains of Gaza City, where Nedal is sheltering with his family.

‘Give us the flour - or we’ll kill you’: Gaza’s starving face impossible choices

As Palestinians in the north of the enclave face forced evacuation under the military escalation planned by Benjamin Netanyahu, locals tell Nedal Hamdouna in Gaza and Bel Trew of the brutal reality

www.independent.co.uk

Israelis have taken to the streets to protest Netanyahu's plan to take over Gaza, fearing the remaining hostages will be killed. The majority of Israelis want an immediate end to the war.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/thousands-rally-tel-aviv-against-netanyahus-new-gaza-plan-demand-release-2025-08-10/

Those who still support what is happening in Gaza are no longer supporting Israel (Israelis don't even support it). They are supporting Netanyahu and his group of ministers.

RocksInMyHead · 2025-08-11T07:45:33-0500

stevevw said:
Media should report what's happening in Gaza, not run Hamas propaganda

Israel would first have to allow independent journalists into Gaza for them to be able to directly report what is happening.

stevevw · 2025-08-11T08:05:42-0500

RocksInMyHead said:
Israel would first have to allow independent journalists into Gaza for them to be able to directly report what is happening.

What independent journalists? lol.

stevevw · 2025-08-11T08:09:25-0500

I think an immediate end to the war and any ceasefire is a win for Hamas and a death sentence to the hostages. Unless the hostags are released as part of that agreement then there is no agreement.

IMagine your neighbour murders half you family and takes a couple hostage and said that they will never stop trying to kill your family. Would you build a high fence around your home to stop them coming in. Would you try to get your family back. Better still would you try to stop them altogether any means you can.

Remember these radicals don't listen to reason and its a religious extremist belief that will never die. Their aim from birth until death is to exterminate the Jews. There is no negociation, cease fire or peace until they are gone full stop.

rjs330 · 2025-08-11T08:14:11-0500

Ophiolite said:
. I read what you had written and formed an impression from your words. My impression was - and remains - that you were defending the Israeli actions. This is now the third time I have told you this. I shall not be wasting my time for a fourth attempt to get that very simple idea through to you.

Sorry, your impressions were wrong and were not based on anything I said. You can't and didn't quote anything I said to defend them or justify them. You made an assumption. And it was incorrect. You jumped to conclusions without reading carefully what I wrote. The fact that I started my post with pointing out rhat I disagreed with what they did should have given you pause to consider my words carefully.

Ophiolite said:
Now, I started out with intention and hope that by pointing out that the way you had phrased your position could lead to misunderstanding. I have now reached the conclusion that you are so locked into some deluded agenda that any reasonable argument is beyond you. Fortunately I don't need to read annymore of your rants.

This response tells me you weren't all that interested in trying to consider what I wrote and find the actual statements made that defended or justified rhe Israelis. The fact that you couldn't actually quote any defense or justification is evidence that perhaps your intentions were not so clear as you think.

You provided no actual reasonable argument for thinking I was justifying their actions. I mean I didnt even say anything like, "well Hamas does it, so its okay for Israel to do it too." It seems like you and the other poster just wanted to respond to what you thought I was doing rather than on what I was actually doing.

RocksInMyHead · 2025-08-11T08:19:55-0500

stevevw said:
What independent journalists? lol.

If they can't hire Palestinian journalists because that's Hamas propaganda, and they can't send their own journalists because the are no independent journalists, it seems to me that you're just looking for them to run Israeli propaganda instead. And I don't see how that's any better - aside from the fact that it validates your feelings, I guess. Because that's what's really important in this situation.

stevevw · 2025-08-11T10:05:54-0500

RocksInMyHead said:
If they can't hire Palestinian journalists because that's Hamas propaganda, and they can't send their own journalists because the are no independent journalists, it seems to me that you're just looking for them to run Israeli propaganda instead. And I don't see how that's any better - aside from the fact that it validates your feelings, I guess. Because that's what's really important in this situation.

I think if there is to be any reporting then it should come from an independent organisation such as a world body. But not ANWAR as they have been caught having a biased position on whats happening.

But I don't trust any media as they have been shown to be highly biased in reporting. I have heard maybe Reuters or one of the Indian news outlets like NDTV are pretty unbiased.

The point being that we should not just take what is in the media at face value and investigate from a number of sources what is the truth.

But we also have to remember that there is no good news when reporting on war.

Gaza: In the face of horror, we cannot look away.

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