Jesus reaffirms predestination

Brittno said:

John 6:25: He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.

This clearly says that the people who comes to Christ is from the Fathers will

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It is best to read this verse in context. Here are a few verses before this verse. It does put a different spin on your interpretation.

John 6:63-65 reads: "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” And then he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

It is His Holy Spirit that the Father grants to the believer in order to be saved. No Holy Spirit, no salvation. No belief no Holy Spirit.

Blessings

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

draw = helkuō = draw or drag

come = erchomai = accompany, appear, grow

Salvation for the Jews had lain with keeping the law in the past. When Jesus appeared, this changed to faith in him as Messiah

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The sense I see here is that belief precedes the drawing and teaching.

timf said:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

draw = helkuō = draw or drag

come = erchomai = accompany, appear, grow

Salvation for the Jews had lain with keeping the law in the past. When Jesus appeared, this changed to faith in him as Messiah

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

The sense I see here is that belief precedes the drawing and teaching.

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But if, as Jesus said, nobody can come to Him unless the Father draws that person, and we have other bible references to coming to Jesus involving believing, how can belief precede God's drawing? For example:

“And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.”” (Mt 9:28 NKJV)

The first disciples came to Jesus, leaving their fishing boats, and believed in Him. Besides, Ephesians 2 talks of of unsaved sinners being "dead in trespasses and sins." How could they believe before God acted on their dead hearts?

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8)

Brittno said:

John 6:25: He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.

This clearly says that the people who comes to Christ is from the Fathers will

Click to expand...

When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed (Acts 13:48).

How could they believe before God acted on their dead hearts?

Joh 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

All factors involved in salvation and the order they happen in is called the ordo salutis, and it varies from theological position to theological position. The moment of salvation events (including drawing/dragging, heart changing, faith given, belief) happen in the blink of an eye (or less) to us, and it is impossible for us to know which order they happen in. But, as in the ordo salutis, it varies from theological position to theological position.

From my personal perspective, there are a lot of behind-the-scenes things going on that we can’t see till they are in the past to us and we can’t see the full work of the hand of God in the event. We can’t see the election or the calling, but we know they are there. We can see in hindsight that God places us where we need to be at each step of the way so that we are in the right place and time to hear the truths we need to hear to be saved, then the rest is up to Him. His work to perform. We can argue the “this comes before that” and so on, but the important thing is that it happens.