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3 killed by strike at Gaza's only Catholic church; Israel launches probe, expresses 'deep sorrow'
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The best solution is for Hamas to agree to a permanent cease-fire, give the hostages back (the dead ones as well as the living ones), step up and be a real government that cares about the people that elected them to that position, and stop being terrorists whose only stated purpose is to wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the earth. They have told us incessantly that that is their only intent, and short of putting aside terrorism and manning up to be the government they were elected to be, Hamas should be destroyed. There is, as we’ve seen since the radicals took over in the Middle East, no negotiating with terrorists. They have one goal and that is to jihad until the world is theirs. We can see what is happening in other places where they have taken over, but in this specific case, if Hamas refuses to negotiate a ceasefire, they should be destroyed the way the world came together to destroy Hitler. They are the aggressors.
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Friedrich Rubinstein
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Do you only care about ending this current iteration of the conflict, or do you also care about the hostages still held by Hamas and the prevention of further wars in the future? Of course the war would end if Israel just surrenders, retreats from Gaza and leaves the hostages behind (and no, Hamas won't release them voluntarily even if Israel withdraws), but as long as Hamas remains in power in Gaza they will keep firing tens of thousands of rockets into Israel like in the past 20 years, they will keep digging tunnels and smuggling weapons into Gaza to prepare for the next attack on Israel, and in a few years we're right back at where we are now.
There is only one side in this conflict that can end the violence permanently, and that is Hamas. By giving up their desire of "liberating" the region "from the river to the sea" and wiping out the Jewish state.
You, on the other hand, seem to expect ISRAEL to end the violence permanently, and that is only possible if Israel simply stops defending her country, her civilians and her rights. If Israel just allows the jihadists to slaughter them freely. What a grotesque vision of "peace".
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In case anyone here has forgotten what Hamas says about who they are and why they are doing what they’re doing.
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1. The IDF has a record of using Palestinans as human shields
https://www.btselem.org/human_shields
2. Netanyahu has hired thugs to steal aid in Gaza
MSN
3, The burnt baby allegation has no credible evidence to back it up apart from the assertion by a first responder. It's not difficult to perceive the political motivation of such a claim
Media consensus reveals no evidence of Israeli baby burned in oven by Hamas - Soch Fact Check
I note you provided no evidence for your allegations either.
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From reading the article it is clear that Hamas has never had any intention of negotiating seriously. Firstly, Hamas violated the ceasefire originally in place on October 7, almost 2 years ago, massacring over 1200 Jews, raping women, putting babies in ovens to die and taking hundreds hostage, and STILL nobody is holding them accountable and blaming Israel when Hamas uses the Palestinians civilians, including women and children as shields. Hamas is demanding 1800 terrorists who were arrested by Israel for attacks on the country, who deserved to be arrested, BTW, while only agreeing to release 25 living and a few dead ones who they starved and beat to death. This is not serious negotiationing. When one party refuses to negotiate in good faith, the terms of the deal are over. It’s patently ridiculous to level the blame on Israel for Hamas refusing to negotiate, throwing the temporary peace into chaos. I posted a video of Hamas telling us what their objectives are, and they have no interest in peace with Israel, or releasing their hostages.
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Hmm what ceasefire prior to Oct 7 - clearly Israel paid it no attention. Repeating unsubstantiated politically motivated false allegations about babies burnt in ovens is just like background hiss, only less useful. And just how many Jews (other nationalities clearly don't matter to you) were killed on Oct 7 - was it 1500 as in post #16 or over 1200 as in post #27? Still 1500 is over 1200 so maybe you're being consistent! The current agreed figure is 1195 which includes 79 foreign nationals. One could argue that Israel's position of demanding hostage release and then saying we will destroy all Hamas anyway isn't serious.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...gency-israel-government-statement-2023-10-11/
But rather than having another background hiss post from you, since you are clearly an avid supporter of Israel and the policies of the current government, which is more important to you?
1. To tell the truth
2. To support Israel
Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence | If Americans Knew
https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...gency-israel-government-statement-2023-10-11/
But rather than having another background hiss post from you, since you are clearly an avid supporter of Israel and the policies of the current government, which is more important to you?
1. To tell the truth
2. To support Israel
Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence | If Americans Knew
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Both are important. When someone tells you who they are, repeatedly, you should listen to them. Hamas has said over and over that their sole purpose for being is to wipe Israel and all Jews from the face of the earth. Defending yourself from annihilation is not the same as annihilation. And Israel has every right to exist and defend itself. The article you posted shows Israel’s response to being attacked on all sides daily for over 70 years, but especially by Hamas, and the decision wasn’t made till AFTER the horrific attacks, where they targeted civilians, and especially women and children, on Oct. 7.
The reason we know Hamas is a terrorist group is because they hide behind women and children of their own. The Geneva Convention puts the deaths of the Palestinians squarely on Hamas’s shoulders. Israel warns them when they are going to attack so the civilians can try to get to safety, Hamas prevents them. Hamas hides their military operations and weapons under hospitals and schools knowing it would be looked down on to bomb those types of buildings. People who have consciences would never do things like this. They are pure evil and should, as the aggressors, be totally destroyed. And, lest you would try to spin my words, I’m talking about Hamas, not the Palestinians.
To suggest that what I said is a lie, is a lie in itself. Maybe I was off some here and there, but are you denying that this was an unprovoked attack? Are you suggesting that Hamas didn’t target civilians and take hundreds hostage? Are you good with Hamas starving their own people as well as starving and beating the hostages? Where is your outrage at Hamas, since all this lays on their shoulders and it could have been prevented, or ended at any time by releasing the hostages? You support Hamas by suggesting that Israel has any responsibility at all in this war. Israel has bent over backwards so the targeted strikes aimed at military targets harms as few civilians as possible, while ALL OF HAMAS’s ATTACKS have been against civilians. Where is your outrage for that? Have I missed a post where you condemned any of that?
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Well I was hoping that you would say it's more important to tell the truth since as Christians our primary loyalty is to God. There's lots in the Bible about that e.g. from Colossians 3
Instead you served up more background hiss.
I don't know what news sources you listen to but in the UK Hamas are treated like the IRA were during the Troubles - their voices are not heard, and on the very rare occasions that they are heard they have this awful habit of speaking in Arabic, not English, so one has to rely on the accuracy and integrity of a translation which in these times is a source of doubt.
All these allegations about Hamas are also in doubt for the simple reason Israel bans foreign journalists from Gaza (and targets those who are there). Some might be true but we certainly can't rely on the IDF as a reliable source. The murder of the aid workers in the ambulance convoy clearly shows this. This was an unusual case in that footage emerged later from the mobile phone of one of the murder victims. But in this one unusual case the IDF were shown to be lying about the headlights not being on. It couldn't be a mistake since the reason they gave for murdering the people in the ambulances was that the ambulances were not showing headlights: the footage clearly showed they did have their headlights on. It's not unreasonable to think this was a case of the IDF being found to be lying when in fact they may lie repeatedly but usually suppress any evidence to show they were lying.
Well alleging there were 1500 murder victims of Oct 7 is more than just being off. It could have been a genuine mistake at the time, but since you now know it isn't true, but have not changed the figure in your post #16, hasn't it become a lie? You have made a false statement which could be read at any time by any forum member in isolation. And now you know it is a false statement. I think you ought to correct it.
And you have made another false statement: "ALL OF HAMAS’s ATTACKS have been against civilians." when the current official death toll of Oct 7 includes 379 members of Israeli security forces.
New Tally Puts Oct 7 Attack Death Toll In Israel At 1,189
It is not self-defence to slaughter over 18000 children in Gaza or to deliberately starve children to death by cutting off aid for months.
Famine in Gaza: inside the 8 August Guardian Weekly
Instead you served up more background hiss.
I don't know what news sources you listen to but in the UK Hamas are treated like the IRA were during the Troubles - their voices are not heard, and on the very rare occasions that they are heard they have this awful habit of speaking in Arabic, not English, so one has to rely on the accuracy and integrity of a translation which in these times is a source of doubt.
All these allegations about Hamas are also in doubt for the simple reason Israel bans foreign journalists from Gaza (and targets those who are there). Some might be true but we certainly can't rely on the IDF as a reliable source. The murder of the aid workers in the ambulance convoy clearly shows this. This was an unusual case in that footage emerged later from the mobile phone of one of the murder victims. But in this one unusual case the IDF were shown to be lying about the headlights not being on. It couldn't be a mistake since the reason they gave for murdering the people in the ambulances was that the ambulances were not showing headlights: the footage clearly showed they did have their headlights on. It's not unreasonable to think this was a case of the IDF being found to be lying when in fact they may lie repeatedly but usually suppress any evidence to show they were lying.
Well alleging there were 1500 murder victims of Oct 7 is more than just being off. It could have been a genuine mistake at the time, but since you now know it isn't true, but have not changed the figure in your post #16, hasn't it become a lie? You have made a false statement which could be read at any time by any forum member in isolation. And now you know it is a false statement. I think you ought to correct it.
And you have made another false statement: "ALL OF HAMAS’s ATTACKS have been against civilians." when the current official death toll of Oct 7 includes 379 members of Israeli security forces.
New Tally Puts Oct 7 Attack Death Toll In Israel At 1,189
It is not self-defence to slaughter over 18000 children in Gaza or to deliberately starve children to death by cutting off aid for months.
Famine in Gaza: inside the 8 August Guardian Weekly
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Hamas are terrorists whose stated purpose is to wipe Israel and all Jews off the face of the earth. They don’t deserve to be listened to since they are the aggressors in all situations.
THEY attacked Israel on October 7.
THEY killed 1200 civilians, raped women and burned babies in their cribs.
THEY use their own citizens as shields to hide behind.
THEY build their military bases under hospitals and schools so that they can’t be retaliated against after attacking.
THEY steal food sent in for the people of Gaza to sell for money so they can buy weapons.
THEY can end it all in an instant (and always could) by releasing the hostages - all of them, alive and dead.
You calling anything you don’t like “hiss” is just an example of the hatred of intolerant people. You serve up Hamas-censored media releases and then call what we post “hiss”. What a way to reveal yourself.
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Well what a useless post A New Dawn! All you've done here is repeat unsubstantiated allegations and repeat the untruth that all the Oct 7 victims were civilians. I think you'll find even the Israeli government don't say that:
https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-idf-casualties#October 2023
https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-israel-police-security-forces-casualties
And of course you repeat the hoary accusation that criticism of Israel means support for Hamas which is logical nonsense.
And as I wrote earlier the Israeli government has vowed to wipe out (i.e. kill) Hamas entirely and is going a long way to applying that to the whole population, including the civilians. So stating that releasing the hostages would "end it all" is complete nonsense as well.
And now you seem to be stating that the Guardian weekly is printing Hamas-censored media releases! Now if Israel were to allow foreign journalists into Gaza ...
The IDF are also terrorists.
https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-idf-casualties#October 2023
https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-israel-police-security-forces-casualties
And of course you repeat the hoary accusation that criticism of Israel means support for Hamas which is logical nonsense.
And as I wrote earlier the Israeli government has vowed to wipe out (i.e. kill) Hamas entirely and is going a long way to applying that to the whole population, including the civilians. So stating that releasing the hostages would "end it all" is complete nonsense as well.
And now you seem to be stating that the Guardian weekly is printing Hamas-censored media releases! Now if Israel were to allow foreign journalists into Gaza ...
The IDF are also terrorists.
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It’s unsubstantiated that Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7, almost two years ago?
It’s unsubstantiated that Hamas raped Israeli women and set babies on fire?
It’s unsubstantiated that they hide behind their own women and children using them as shields and build their bases under schools and hospitals?
The only one that APPEARS unsubstantiated is the one about stealing food, but thanks to the AP whistleblower we also know that that’s true.
The only true thing you said was that IDF said they would wipe out Hamas, and they should since that’s only part of defending themselves. Hamas’ only stated intention SINCE THEY WERE FOUNDED (1987 (that’s how long Hamas has been attacking Israel)) was to wipe Israel and all Jews OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. So, yes, that is right. And correct. There is no negotiating with someone who wants to destroy you. Hamas refuses to release the hostages, WHICH WOULD END THIS WHOLE THING, but they don’t want to because they know that if they control the narrative long enough, people like you will turn against the innocent party and lay the blame on Israel instead of where it belongs, squarely on Hamas’ shoulders. Disgusting that you would fall for the propaganda a terrorist organization.
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No, yes, yes
But why no regret about stating that all the Oct 7 casualties were civilians when even the Israeli government website lists IDF and security services people among the victims with photos of them in uniform?! Why doesn't even that convince you you are wrong as you are wrong about many other things?!
Do you still think all the Oct 7 victims were civilians?
But why no regret about stating that all the Oct 7 casualties were civilians when even the Israeli government website lists IDF and security services people among the victims with photos of them in uniform?! Why doesn't even that convince you you are wrong as you are wrong about many other things?!
Do you still think all the Oct 7 victims were civilians?
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1. Hamas has a record of using Palestinians as human shields.
Hamas chooses not to build bomb shelters in Gaza because that would undercut its ability to use the population as human shields.
By putting civilians in or above its military positions, Hamas knows it cannot lose.
Either it will prevent Israel from attacking, since the Israeli military tries to minimize harm to civilians, or if Israel does attack, the use of human shields will ensure high civilian casualties.
Hamas can then hold the death toll against Israel while generating sympathy for itself.
2. Are these the gangs that Netanyahu hired or are these Hamas gangs raising money for them?
DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Since Israel’s offensive led to a security breakdown in Gaza that has made it nearly impossible to safely deliver food to starving Palestinians, much of the limited aid entering is being hoarded by gangs and merchants and sold at exorbitant prices.
A kilogram (2.2 pounds) of flour has run as high as $60 in recent days, a kilogram of lentils up to $35. That is beyond the means of most residents in the territory, which experts say is at risk of famine and where people are largely reliant on savings 21 months into the Israel-Hamas war.
Israel’s decision this weekend to facilitate more aid deliveries — under international pressure — has lowered prices somewhat but has yet to be fully felt on the ground.
Bags of flour in markets often bear U.N. logos, while other packaging has markings indicating it came from the Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation — all originally handed out for free. It’s impossible to know how much is being diverted, but neither group is able to track who receives its aid.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-aid-un-ghf-567c5bffd5d7ae4cc54ea0816a159f8f
Looks like someone here drank the Hamas kool aid.
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