I am struggling to understand choice in salvation in Lutheranism

Leevo · Monday at 2:40 PM

Recently I have been investigating Lutheranism as someone coming out of the RCC and currently attending a Southern Baptist Church. The differences between the RCC and SBC are vast. I believe the Gospel is a simple message of having faith in Christ’s work on the cross to be saved. However, one hang up for me is the purely symbolic view of Baptism and the Eucharist in the SBC. I understand the arguments from both sides but having accepted the RC and, what I think was the Early Church view for so long I feel as though I am missing out in the SBC with their symbolic view and because they only offer Communion once a quarter.

This leads me to where I am currently, investigating Lutheranism pretty heavily. I agree with almost all of the Lutheran theology I have learned thus far and find it to be most aligned with what I think scripture reveals. Except with regards to free will and predestination. I have always leaned Arminian if I had to put a label on it. From my understanding, Lutherans teach that human beings have nothing to do with their salvation, that God provides this faith to them and they have no choice in it except the ability to reject this faith and walk away. I understand the overall doctrine is considered a paradox. What bugs me and holds me back from going further into Lutheranism, is that when in the New Testament, someone asks what they must do to be saved, such as Acts 16:30-31, the answer is “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” which to me is clearly implying that we have to choose to believe and we have a responsibility to accept or reject the Gospel message. The New Testament seems to time and time again, point to human free will in the process of salvation.

Would it be accurate to say, in Lutheran thought, that God works towards faith in all those who hear the Word preached? Not in a Universalist sense, but that everyone who hears it has the same opportunity to come to faith. Some will come to full faith and be saved by the working of the Holy Spirit, and others will resist God's working in their hearts unto damnation? Such that, when Paul and Silas tell the Jailer, "Believe..." in Acts 16, that God has thus begun working on the jailer's heart so that he will come to faith? And by telling him to Believe, they are admonishing him not to resist the workings of God?

I suppose the question would then be, why would God's working in the hearts of man be effectual for some but not others? Could God not overcome the will of those who resist belief if he wanted to, especially seeing that man is not making the choice here? In my current Arminian understanding, God would not want to force someone to love Him and override the human free decision to do so, what would the Lutheran make of this?

Clare73 · Monday at 3:14 PM

Leevo said:
Recently I have been investigating Lutheranism as someone coming out of the RCC and currently attending a Southern Baptist Church. The differences between the RCC and SBC are vast. I believe the Gospel is a simple message of having faith in Christ’s work on the cross to be saved. However, one hang up for me is the purely symbolic view of Baptism and the Eucharist in the SBC. I understand the arguments from both sides but having accepted the RC and, what I think was the Early Church view for so long I feel as though I am missing out in the SBC with their symbolic view and because they only offer Communion once a quarter.

This leads me to where I am currently, investigating Lutheranism pretty heavily. I agree with almost all of the Lutheran theology I have learned thus far and find it to be most aligned with what I think scripture reveals. Except with regards to free will and predestination. I have always leaned Arminian if I had to put a label on it. From my understanding, Lutherans teach that human beings have nothing to do with their salvation, that God provides this faith to them and they have no choice in it except the ability to reject this faith and walk away.

That is a misrepresentation of the reality of it.
God disposes them to prefer him, and they freely and willingly choose what they prefer. .they do not reject what they prefer.

Leevo said:
I understand the overall doctrine is considered a paradox. What bugs me and holds me back from going further into Lutheranism, is that when in the New Testament, someone asks what they must do to be saved, such as Acts 16:30-31, the answer is “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” which to me is clearly implying that we have to choose to believe and we have a responsibility to accept or reject the Gospel message.

However, in light of the NT that is not what it "clearly implies."
All it implies is that salvation is the result of faith.
And the rest of the NT informs us that:
there is no faith without rebirth (Jn 3:3-5) by the sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8),
faith is a gift (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3) in which the Holy Spirit works in one's disposition, giving one to prefer and, therefore, one freely chooses belief.
Without the rebirth no one believes, and with the rebirth no one fails to believe.

Leevo said:
The New Testament seems to time and time again, point to human free will in the process of salvation.

The NT presents faith as a "choice" that only the born again can make.
We preach the gospel, not because all are able to respond to it, but for the sake of those who are enabled by the Holy Spirit to respond to it.

Leevo said:
Would it be accurate to say, in Lutheran thought, that God works towards faith in all those who hear the Word preached? Not in a Universalist sense, but that everyone who hears it has the same opportunity to come to faith. Some will come to full faith and be saved by the working of the Holy Spirit, and others will resist God's working in their hearts unto damnation? Such that, when Paul and Silas tell the Jailer, "Believe..." in Acts 16, that God has thus begun working on the jailer's heart so that he will come to faith? And by telling him to Believe, they are admonishing him not to resist the workings of God?

I suppose the question would then be, why would God's working in the hearts of man be effectual for some but not others?

The Holy Spiit does not work in all hearts, only those of the elect (Ro 8:29-30), where "foreknew" there refers to God's foreknowledge (prognosis) of his election of them.

Leevo said:
Could God not overcome the will of those who resist belief if he wanted to, especially seeing that man is not making the choice here? In my current Arminian understanding, God would not want to force someone to love Him and override the human free decision to do so, what would the Lutheran make of this?

That is two assumptions of human reasoning nowhere presented in Scripture.

What God would not want, and God forcing. . .God does not "force," he works in the disposition of the elect to give them to prefer him, which preference they then freely choose, no force involved.

Good questions. . .

Daniel9v9 · Monday at 4:29 PM

Hello Leevo!

I'm excited you're thinking about this and thank you for the fantastic questions!

For a concise yet thorough overview of salvation and election as held by the Lutheran Church, I can recommend what is formally confessed in the Formula of Concord, which consists of two documents:

A brief version called the Epitome:

The Epitome – Luco

www.lutherancodex.com

And an expanded version called the Solid Declaration:

The Solid Declaration – Luco

www.lutherancodex.com

If it's helpful, I can add this:

All churches believe in holy mysteries, even if they disagree on the language concerning it. The fact that God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is a holy mystery. The fact that Jesus is fully man and fully God is a holy mystery. That is, there's no analogy in nature, no comparison, no experience we can draw on to make logical sense of the Holy Trinity. Yet, we all believe and confess it, because it's divinely revealed to us through Christ. And again, the two natures of Christ is beyond our ability to reason, for according to logic, that which is finite cannot contain that which is infinite. But the Bible refers to the man Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Mary, as GOD, YHWH. This is an article of faith that received by all Christian churches. The Trinity and the two natures of Christ, then, are two examples of where faith governs reason among all Christians.

Now, in the Lutheran Church, we hold that the mystery of God is not only constrained by the nature of God but extends to His works! His works of creation, of miracles, providence, the Church, the Sacraments, the resurrection, and even salvation! For us, these are all articles of faith, things properly received by faith. So in the same way we receive the two natures of Christ by faith, we also receive salvation by faith. This is why we can hold that salvation is entirely from God, but that damnation is entirely merited by sinful man. The Bible says Christ atoned for all sin and yet that not all are saved, and we say: Amen!

The best Biblical summary that I know of, that speaks of salvation, election, and the connection to good works, is found in Ephesians 2 — it's just a beautiful and wonderfully rich text!

Speaking of Christians, the saints (Ephesians 1:1), the elect (Ephesians 1:3-5), the Holy Spirit through St. Paul says that we were dead in the trespasses and sins. This is a very powerful image and not merely symbolic. It's a profound explanation of the spiritual reality of all who reject God by their unbelief. (Cf. Luke 9:59–60; Luke 15:24; John 11:43–44; Revelation 3:1–2; and Jesus' words that we have to be born again / born from above in John 3)

It can be helpful to consider the image of a corpse, the reality of being spiritually dead, in connection to human will and the OT sacrificial system. A dead person cannot will or chose himself to life, let alone work for or merit it! The only thing he can do is to rot and defile, to make things spiritually unclean. But the good news, literally, the Gospel, is that Jesus makes us clean and holy, and just as He called Lazarus out of the grave, He also calls us to life by means of His Word. Ephesians 2:8-10, the great summary of salvation and Christian living, reads:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Or to quote John: Christians "become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

Thanks be to God!

Joyfully in Christ,
Bp. Daniel Nilsen

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I am struggling to understand choice in salvation in Lutheranism

Leevo

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Clare73

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Daniel9v9

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The Epitome – Luco

The Solid Declaration – Luco

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