For those who have left the Roman Catholic Church

Xeno.of.athens · Aug 2, 2025

mourningdove~ said:
I think maybe a reminder might be helpful here?
This thread is addressed to "those who have left the Roman Catholic Church".

As I understand it, this is not a thread for debating with Catholics as to whether or not one should leave the RCC, whether the RCC is 'the one true church', whether those who have left should return, etc.

What I understand the purpose of this thread to be ... from the thread title and opening post ... is a place "For those who have left the RCC" to discuss their experiences after having left it. (And if I am wrong about this, the OP can correct me.)

I hope to hear more from those persons who have left, if they're comfortable sharing their experiences.

Granted, it is a sensitive topic to discuss when Catholics members are known to be within 'range' ... and the OP has requested that there be no Catholic 'bashing' ... but fact is, there IS life after leaving the RCC. I personally know many folks who have left and gone on to live very fruitful and productive lives for the Lord in their new spiritual 'destination'. It's those folks I'd like to hear from, and why I chose to participate in this thread, if any of those are around.

The thread is in General Theology and the thread starter post does make some observations about the author's perception of the Catholic Church, right? Calling it "lifeless" and implying that one within the Catholic Church does not have intimacy with Christ.

Always in His Presence · Aug 2, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
I think your claims didn't manage to avoid bashing the Catholic Church because they call it lifeless and allege, by implication, that Catholics have no intimacy with Jesus Christ.

Sorry, but I was expressing what I felt and experienced. Just like your repeated threads about Protestants, Pentecostals that are more negative are not considered bashing.

People are free to share their observations and opinions here: Just because it is not a supportive view of a denomination - doesn't make it bashing.

Xeno.of.athens · Aug 2, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
Sorry, but I was expressing what I felt and experienced. Just like your repeated threads about Protestants, Pentecostals that are more negative are not considered bashing.

People are free to share their observations and opinions here: Just because it is not a supportive view of a denomination - doesn't make it bashing.

I'm rather sweet about Protestants and Pentecostals

Always in His Presence · Aug 2, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
I'm rather sweet about Protestants and Pentecostals

As i am about Catholics - Now we have received and addressed your complaint - anything on the actual topic of the thread?

LizaMarie · Aug 2, 2025

mourningdove~ said:
Shortly after drifting away from Catholicism in the early '70s, I physically relocated and began hearing the Word of God spoken on Christian radio, on Christian television, in Christian music, from new persons I was encountering. (This was now the early '80s, when solid Biblical teaching was still plentiful on the airwaves.) I began reading the Bible for myself. The Scriptures ... the Bible ... the Word of God ... became *alive* to me. And I was born again.

I agree solid Christian teaching was more plentiful on the airwaves then(70-s -80s)

Xeno.of.athens · Aug 2, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
As i am about Catholics - Now we have received and addressed your complaint - anything on the actual topic of the thread?

yes, ...

personal testimony is of no use in establishing sound doctrine, nor is it applicable to other people. It's an experience, subjective, feelings based, and no one can tell if God had anything to do with it.

concretecamper · Aug 2, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
I think your claims didn't manage to avoid bashing the Catholic Church because they call it lifeless and allege, by implication, that Catholics have no intimacy with Jesus Christ.

Another veiled attack on His Church. It isn't the first, it won't be the last

Xeno.of.athens · Aug 3, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
Sorry, but I was expressing what I felt and experienced. Just like your repeated threads about Protestants, Pentecostals that are more negative are not considered bashing.

People are free to share their observations and opinions here: Just because it is not a supportive view of a denomination - doesn't make it bashing.

I wanted to come back to this post because there's one or two things that I didn't say that I think should be said.

First, you have every right to express your opinions. And I don't challenge that at all.

Second, If your opinions had been restricted to what you felt rather than to observing what you regarded others to be, there could be no challenging them.

So, had you observed that you felt lifeless when you were attending a Catholic Church, that would be fair enough, but to imply that The Catholic Church is itself lifeless is not fair, and that is not an opinion that you are entitled to hold, regarding other people. That kind of opinion is nothing short of bashing as I observed.

And had you restricted yourself to saying, that you yourself felt as if you had no personal relationship with Jesus Christ when you were in The Catholic Church that too would be fair enough, but when you imply that no one or apparently no one in The Catholic Church has a relationship with Jesus Christ that too is bashing as I previously observed.

If you did not intend to say either of the things that I made an observation about, all you need to do is clarify that you did not mean to imply those things. So, I ask directly, did you mean to imply those things?
There is no better way to find out what somebody means than to ask them what they mean.

Always in His Presence · Aug 3, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
I wanted to come back to this post because there's one or two things that I didn't say that I think should be said.

First, you have every right to express your opinions. And I don't challenge that at all.

Second, If your opinions had been restricted to what you felt rather than to observing what you regarded others to be, there could be no challenging them.

So, had you observed that you felt lifeless when you were attending a Catholic Church, that would be fair enough, but to imply that The Catholic Church is itself lifeless is not fair, and that is not an opinion that you are entitled to hold, regarding other people. That kind of opinion is nothing short of bashing as I observed.

And had you restricted yourself to saying, that you yourself felt as if you had no personal relationship with Jesus Christ when you were in The Catholic Church that too would be fair enough, but when you imply that no one or apparently no one in The Catholic Church has a relationship with Jesus Christ that too is bashing as I previously observed.

If you did not intend to say either of the things that I made an observation about, all you need to do is clarify that you did not mean to imply those things. So, I ask directly, did you mean to imply those things?
There is no better way to find out what somebody means than to ask them what they mean.

I never addressed the church et al. I shared my testimony.

As I said before your complaint is noted, but there is nothing more than your interpretation of what I said.

Go back reread and you’ll see. I’m not addressing the entirety of the Roman Catholic Church, but in fact what I personally felt.

I’m sorry you don’t like it And I’m sorry it bothers you but it’s not against forum rules and I’m not bashing anyone.

And you are becoming abusive in this.

Xeno.of.athens · Aug 3, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
And you are becoming abusive in this.

I am certain that there is no abuse present, and certainly there was no abuse intended in asking you to clarify what you meant.

Always in His Presence · Aug 3, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
I am certain that there is no abuse present, and certainly there was no abuse intended in asking you to clarify what you meant.

I am certain there is no bashing present, and there was no bashing intended in sharing my personal thoughts.

Now I would kindly ask you to please stop.

chevyontheriver · Aug 3, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
I am certain that there is no abuse present, and certainly there was no abuse intended in asking you to clarify what you meant.

We are all too quick to claim we are being abused by the words of others these days. “You hurt my feelings!!!!” Verbal battery is easy to claim, but really rare.

The OP made a claim that the Catholic Church was lifeless and bereft of the Holy Spirit FOR HIM. That’s his observation for whatever reason. It is the opposite of my observation for me. Somehow both observations can be true if we confine it to personal experiences. The problem comes when either of us tries to universalize our experiences. The OP experience universalized is that the Catholic Church is lifeless and bereft of the Holy Spirit. Which is clearly false, at least to you and me and millions of others. My experience universalized would necessarily make the OP out to be a liar, or otherwise confused. So, given I don’t think the OP is ether of those, I have to accept that he felt as he did and truely thought the Catholic Church was lifeless and bereft of the Holy Spirit. Not that it IS either of those things, but that somehow he missed it. And that others somehow also miss it.

So here is where I ask if I, as a Catholic, am experiencing a lifeless Church bereft of the Holy Spirit? Does the experience of the OP mean that for me, or might it be possible for me to meet my Lord in the Catholic Church? Those who yell “Come out from her” know their answer. Others may answer differently.

RileyG · Aug 3, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
I am not anti-Catholic in anyway shape or form. But after 40 years two masters degrees being a pastor and helping plant 3500 Pentecostal churches on three continents I don’t think there’s anything that could drive me back to the Catholic Church too busy right now.

3500? Wow! That’s quite impressive!

Always in His Presence · Aug 3, 2025

RileyG said:
3500? Wow! That’s quite impressive!

Pentecostal churches are the fastest growing denomination in many area's - I'm mainly in Europe and the Middle East. I have a close friend who works with a group who has planted 32,000 churches in India and Pakistan over the last 15 years.

johansen · Aug 3, 2025

My wife found salvation after a friend with a phd in theology from oxford university, was able to see through the snares preventing her fom understanding what faith alone means, in Jesus. Not Jesus plus church.

Looking back at her life. She can only identify one deceased priest as having been born again, and thus was able to be of some spiritual use to her, long ago.

She had enough knowledge of the catholic church to be the next pope.

Always in His Presence · Aug 3, 2025

chevyontheriver said:
The OP experience universalized is that the Catholic Church is lifeless and bereft of the Holy Spirit.

Here are my words:

Always in His Presence said:
I tried going back to the Roman Catholic church because it was my roots, but it was lifeless to me.

Notice - I personalized it and in no way shape or form said it was universal -

There is NOT ONE reference to the Holy Spirit.

Please - for the sake of clarity and truth - stop accusing me of something I DID NOT DO.

mourningdove~ · Aug 3, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
Without bashing or tearing down the RCC - what difference have you experienced since you left.

Another difference I've experienced?
In Protestant churches in general, I don't see the spirit of tribalism that I see within the RCC.
And I don't say that in a bad way, for to be loyal to one's church is to be admired ...
as long as it does not lead the loyal one(s) to behave sinfully towards those who don't share their beliefs.

I prefer to be in a church where loyalty to Jesus Christ is the first priority, and not loyalty to an institution or its leaders.
Again, just a difference in how persons choose to live out their profession of faith.

Always in His Presence · Aug 3, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
The thread is in General Theology and the thread starter post does make some observations about the author's perception of the Catholic Church, right? Calling it "lifeless" and implying that one within the Catholic Church does not have intimacy with Christ.

False accusation - I never said the church was lifeless (universal), nor did I say anywhere that the church had no intimacy with Christ.

Please stop twisting my words - It's unmannerly

mourningdove~ · Aug 3, 2025

johansen said:
My wife found salvation after a friend with a phd in theology from oxford university, was able to see through the snares preventing her fom understanding what faith alone means, in Jesus. Not Jesus plus church.

Looking back at her life. She can only identify one deceased priest as having been born again, and thus was able to be of some spiritual use to her, long ago.

That is a difference I have also noticed.

Because theology regarding salvation is understood differently, it's been extremely rare for me to hear a Catholic priest speak of being 'born again'. Whereas in many Protestant churches, the ministers will speak of it, and testify to the reality of it in their lives. This difference is important to me, as I prefer fellowship amongst believers who know and understand their new identity in Christ. I identify most closely with them.

chevyontheriver · Aug 3, 2025

Always in His Presence said:
Here are my words:

Notice - I personalized it and in no way shape or form said it was universal -

There is NOT ONE reference to the Holy Spirit.

Please - for the sake of clarity and truth - stop accusing me of something I DID NOT DO.

Please read what I wrote and stop accusing me of something I did not do. I did NOT say you universalized it. I pointed out that the tendency to universalize one’s experience in this case would be wrong because it would invalidate the experience of others including me.

This thread is going downhill fast. I can generally communicate with most people. It’s not working here.

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