I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

JulieB67 said:

You must be joking. You certainly have a problem with every scripture/verse I have posted. Your silence speaks volumes.

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I doubt very much that after our exchanges you even have a grasp of Christian Universalism, and I've already stated, repeatedly, that my positions accept and agree with every Word of God being applicable to everyone, per Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, and Deut. 8:3. So not sure what you're not hearing other than what you hear doesn't fit your positional mold.

You are welcome to try to state what you "think" my positions are. I doubt you even know.

I understand yours completely because I've been there.

JulieB67 said:

Do you openly deny that we are told if we resist him, he will flee?

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Do you think that makes you sinless OR that your sin is no longer "of the devil?" 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

In fact is Mark 4:15 no longer applicable to YOU? Have you managed to wipe out that particular Word of God from applicability to YOU?

Jump in.

JulieB67 said:

Do you openly deny that God himself searches the heart?

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Do you think Jer. 17:9 no longer applies to YOU? Have you wiped out that Word of God for yourself as well? You think God finds no evil whatsoever in your heart and you have justified yourself? Romans 7:21, Heb. 10:22

Jump in.

JulieB67 said:

Is everyone perfect? No. We are all tempted and fall short at times.

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We are always "short" and "imperfect" in this present life, in case reality hasn't set in yet. At no time are we ever
'sinless." Furthermore all of our sins are of the devil, and remain that way because the tempter is assuredly involved in every sin in some way, shape, form or fashion, entirely.

JulieB67 said:

But can we strive to walk in the light? Yes. And that means we can continue to always try and resist the devil and submit ourselves to God. I'm guessing you're not able to for the most part? It can take time to mature in that aspect. Again, no one will ever be perfect. We will always miss the mark in flesh bodies. But we should always try and put the spirit over the flesh. And God is the heart knower.

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You can try all you please. The needle of being and remaining a sinner hasn't changed and won't change. In fact for Paul it was even worse. In 1 Tim. 1:15 Paul shows "I am" (present tense application) the chief of sinners. Paul assuredly knew and even claimed to have both temptation in his flesh, Gal. 4:14 and a messenger of Satan in his own flesh, 2 Cor. 12:7.

There is no extricating the tempter from the equations of sin nor is there any claims of legitimate sinlessness for anyone but Jesus

JulieB67 said:

The doctrine that believes the Second Death only applies to Satan and his angels. Christ himself would prove you wrong and has given us his Word on that. He's told us, he's warned us about repenting, etc. Anyone not written in the book of life will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. It would be a denial to suggest otherwise. Christ did get the job done -meaning he is Savior to the entire world. Meaning he is it, there is no other way but someone can certainly not accept that, believe that, obey the gospel, and so on.

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People not only don't accept Jesus, but can not. Do you know why? Because Satan, the god of this world, both controls them and blinds them just as Satan did withIN us all. Did you forget?

That's why all of humanity is CAPTIVE in the eyes of our Lord

And that's why Jesus came, to set CAPTIVES free. ALL of them. We don't let ourselves out of jail, contrary to what many "self works" promoters/positions claim.

Nevertheless Jesus can still look any of us in the face and address the tempter, just as He did with Peter. Do you think their fear of the Lord was baseless? OR did they know God could wreak vengeance on the tempter IN THEM any time God Pleased to do so?

Your positions are in fact totally blinded and exempt from the "other party" and takes zero account for the other party, merely claiming a petty evil lawless thought from time to time, maybe, and your exaltation in making yourself FREE of the tempter when in fact that is just another lie of the tempter. Your position moved you into a lying hypocrisy position, just as Jesus stated would happen:

Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

You're not sure of your own position but you sure are sure of the people that aren't getting in. Instant BLOCK.

All of that is in fact an action of our adversary in "religious" people. So, no foul on you. You're just being gamed and don't know it or see it.

And you in fact can't see it.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

you even have a grasp of Christian Universalism

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I don't have to grasp it because it's not biblical in any way.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

You are welcome to try to state what you "think" my positions are.

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I know your positions aren't biblical.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Do you think that makes you sinless

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You obviously can't read scripture or my posts. I never stated anyone was sinless. But after true repentance there is a change within us. Will we ever be sinless and perfect? No. But the "want" has to be there. That's what repentance is -to think differently.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

There is no extricating the tempter from the equations of sin nor is there any claims of legitimate sinlessness for anyone but Jesus

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Again, who stated anyone would ever be sinless? Not me. But this verse does apply. Another verse you obviously don't believe

I Corinthians 10:13 "There hath no temptation taken you but such is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Do you think Jer. 17:9 no longer applies to YOU?

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I'm simply referring to this verse which if you would read below the one you posted tells us that God searches the heart

Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
It's as simple as that. How hard is that for you? I suppose very since you are so tied to the devil. According to you no one should have any fruit at at all because the devil holds them back from doing so at all times.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

you can try all you please. The needle of being and remaining a sinner hasn't changed and won't change.

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We are told specifically that only those 'walking in the light" have true fellowship. Again, why are you so against scripture??? Of course people will remain sinners but they can achieve repentance. Meaning true faith will produce works naturally and we can put on the new creature and let go of sins that easily beset us.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

There is no extricating the tempter from the equations of sin

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We are told to resist him and he will flee. Again, why do you not believe the Word of God which has to be taken as a whole?

Are you so tied to the devil that these verses does not apply to you?

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
Ephesians 4:22 "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;"

Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;"

Ephesians 4:24 "And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

olossians 3:5 "Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"

Colossians 3:6 "For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience;" (something apparently you don't believe)

Colossians 3:7 "In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them."

There's the big key right there. There's a difference between sinning and falling short after repentance and continuing to live in sin without any repentance, remorse, etc. Someone who's found repentance would not live that way.


I Peter 2:1 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speaking,"

It would seem you think Peter and the rest of the apostle/disciples are wasting their time preaching.

I Peter 2:2 "As new born babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:"

We can grow in the Word.

I Peter 3:11 "Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it."


I Peter 3:12 "For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil."

Again, it's that simple. The Lord is the heart knower.

I Peter 4:1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind; for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;"

Peter 4:2 "That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

Do you not really believe any of these verses?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

You're not sure of your own position

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I am sure of my own position but I always take verses like this seriously -

I Corinthians 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

Which means I will continue to arm myself with faith and the Word and the rest of the gospel armor.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

but you sure are sure of the people that aren't getting in.

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Only those not found written in the book of life. You should be as well if you believe this verse which isn't about Satan and his devils. They are not in the book of life.

This is what I believe-

Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."



But once again, I know you will continue to ignore scripture.

The names that are found, are the one's in the white stones ...

JulieB67 said:

I don't have to grasp it

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Then why bother refuting it?

Loving our neighbors as ourselves will STAND regardless of any attempts to diminish it or your abilities or interests in doing so

JulieB67 said:

You obviously can't read scripture or my posts. I never stated anyone was sinless. But after true repentance there is a change within us. Will we ever be sinless and perfect? No

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Fact is, we are no different than any other sinners, Romans 3:9, lying hypocrisy about how great we are at trying notwithstanding

JulieB67 said:

Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
It's as simple as that. How hard is that for you? I suppose very since you are so tied to the devil. According to you no one should have any fruit at at all because the devil holds them back from doing so at all times.

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Hate to break the facts to you but we ALL do both good and evil. There is no positions of only one or the other, and the doing good part is debatable.

JulieB67 said:

Do you not really believe any of these verses?

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I accept every single jot, tittle and Word of God as applicable to EVERYONE. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Why don't you try taking some of the wrath, condemnation and destruction Words and, you know, try to personally apply them? Start with Mark 4:15 and then tell me it's just you standing in your shoes and I'll tell you you were stolen from by an unseen enemy that the wrath, condemnation and destruction Words are written for, IN OUR BEHAVES no less. Therefore ALL those Words are FOR US as well.

You know, all those Words you run and hide from.

Aseyesee said:

The names that are found, are the one's in the white stones ...

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Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works

1 Corinthians 3:8
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Jesus said to His disciples to call ourselves UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS after we have done ALL we have been commanded

Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

You know what happens to UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS, right?

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Harmony. Such a wonderful song.

And so much for the "positive confession" crowd. pffffft

Do you know that some, like me, are actually waiting in wonderful expectation to hear His Words, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

All in favor say AYE!

What? Nobody wants to HEAR?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works

1 Corinthians 3:8
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

Revelation 22:12
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Jesus said to His disciples to call ourselves UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS after we have done ALL we have been commanded

Luke 17:10
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

You know what happens to UNPROFITABLE SERVANTS, right?

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Harmony. Such a wonderful song.

And so much for the "positive confession" crowd. pffffft

Do you know that some, like me, are actually waiting in wonderful expectation to hear His Words, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

All in favor say AYE!

What? Nobody wants to HEAR?

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We all have a portion (or from one place ... a 1/3) or a book of works from another) or a son of perdition from yet another) that is cast into the lake of fire ...

JulieB67 said:

There's a difference between sinning and falling short after repentance and continuing to live in sin without any repentance, remorse, etc. Someone who's found repentance would not live that way.

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What is it in your opinion that we have changed from/repented of?

timothyu said:

What is it in your opinion that we have changed from/repented of

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Speaking for me personally because repentance can take time, I feel like I can do this much easier these days-

Ephesians 4:23 "And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;"


Meaning for me, I want to put on the new man. I want to overcome temptation, etc. The "want" is definitely there which I feel is driven by the Holy Spirit. Am I still weak about certain things? Yes, but it's much easier for me to overcome things.

And we know repentance is a "new way of thinking" a change of heart, etc. So that's what we have changed basically -our minds. Someone who continues to sin and not care would not have achieved that I don't believe.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I accept every single jot, tittle and Word of God

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Apparently, you don't. Your continued avoidance of scripture proves that.

There is no positions of only one or the other, and the doing good part is debatable.

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So this verse isn't in any way shape or form about you? Got it.

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Start with Mark 4:15

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This was already addressed to you in the past from myself and others. You are taking this verse out of context within that parable. Only one part had the seed stolen by Satan.

In the same instance why don't you address the verses I've posted? If you accept every single jot and word how about addressing all the verses I posted in my last post and your beliefs about each one of them and then get back to me...

JulieB67 said:

Someone who continues to sin and not care would not have achieved that I don't believe.

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Right, they are still focused on self-interest and ignoring the two commandments

timothyu said:

What is it in your opinion that we have changed from/repented of?

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In my opinion I feel that I even have to ask for Jesus to give me the Holy Spirit so that even my thoughts and intentions can be cleansed.

I do ask for Jesus to show me what my sins are errors are and help me to truly change.

PatrickTate said:

do ask for Jesus to show me what my sins are errors are and help me to truly change.

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Wouldn’t it be easier to understand the root cause of all sin and go for the illness rather than the symptoms ?

timothyu said:

Wouldn’t it be easier to understand the root cause of all sin and go for the illness rather than the symptoms ?

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It seems to me that the sinful nature fills us and only more of the Fire of the Holy Spirit will cleanse our mind and will and emotions and thoughts.

God sAid it was simple. Put His will first rather than our own, the original sin... and love all as self putting the focus on the needs of others rather than selfish self-interest

timothyu said:

. Put His will first rather than our own

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This is the most important thing, yes.

Thanks Eve (and Adam) for failing to remember that

JulieB67 said:

Apparently, you don't. Your continued avoidance of scripture proves that.

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The only thing being proven is your positions inability to factor in our adversary and instead read in people only.

Every Word of God that is adverse goes in which direction? To people, or to the devils?

It's really not that hard to figure out.

JulieB67 said:

So this verse isn't in any way shape or form about you? Got it.

Ephesians 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

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You think that exempts anyone from internal temptations via the tempter?

2 parties. Count 'em. 2.

It'll come to you eventually. Maybe at the end, but it will come.

JulieB67 said:

This was already addressed to you in the past from myself and others. You are taking this verse out of context within that parable. Only one part had the seed stolen by Satan.

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See? That doesn't apply to you, does it? Just say it.

JulieB67 said:

In the same instance why don't you address the verses I've posted? If you accept every single jot and word

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Uh, no, you don't and just said so.

Acceptance is personal. Every last Word. And that can only be when there is an adverse party in the picture, which there is and your positions simply have no account on that part. IF you did take it into account your picture would clear up considerably.

Aseyesee said:

We all have a portion (or from one place ... a 1/3) or a book of works from another) or a son of perdition from yet another) that is cast into the lake of fire ...

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The question with you has lingered. Is that part you, or a foreign agent that is not you?

Paul described the sin he had in his own flesh as A. No longer I twice in Romans 7, and B. A messenger of Satan in his flesh.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Uh, no, you don't and just said so.

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I accept every word. That doesn't mean every verse personally applies to everyone. It doesn't. Context matters. I stated that Mark 4:15 is talking only about a portion of the people when they hear the word Satan immediately steals it. I would say at one point this verse was more likely me than Satan stealing the Word immediately.

Mark 4:19 "And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful."

Not every verse of that parable applies to everyone. Christ is separating them into 4 different groups when they hear the Word.

And it is possible to eventually separate from the things of this world that might pop up over time. And then it becomes easier and easier to put God's will over our own. Again will we always succeed in the flesh? No. But we can mature as a Christian. That is possible.

I will ask again, are the disciples/apostles wasting their time? Because all of those verses I posted above that you "won't" address tell us it is possible to put on the new man and renew your mind and not conform to the world.

Luke 10:19 "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

James 4:7 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

Romans 12:2 "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

If you can't believe in the truth of these verses, than there's nothing more than I can say to you.

Perhaps if people dropped the notion of capital S satan and instead thought of it as an adversarial spirit/character within both elohim and humans, the notion of an evil being will be left behind and we can understand evil itself.

Yes, God created a Tempter, but it has no power to MAKE us do anything. It is the power of suggestion. Just as we had the free will to put our will first before God and each other, we also have the free will to reverse that behaviour and put God’s Will first and trust in Him rather than our own self-perceived abilities. Our allegiance should be to that reversed thinking rather than to ourselves. Servants to God and to mankind, rather than to selfishness. (Take note humans who inundate the world with the false doctrine of self through their politicians, media, economic systems, society and daily life. It is all a lie based on the greed of mankind.)