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Peter’s Rooster

newton3005

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There are Passage in the Bible which, when you think of it, are just the tip of the iceberg, alluding to things far and wide and deep beneath the Passages themselves. How else to explain a passage in which its reference or meaning is not obvious?

Consider the exchange between Jesus and Peter in John 13:36–38. Peter asks Jesus where he is going, and Jesus’ response in Verse 36, “Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward.” In the next Verse, Peter says “Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for you.” Commentators say that Peter is a compulsive disciple who tends to speak before he thinks. It may not be far-fetched to believe that Peter didn’t collect his thoughts before he starts expressing them. Jesus knows that Peter has no idea where he’s going; if he did, he probably would have added ‘if it is acceptable to you’ or something similar to that. Offhand, it doesn’t appear that Jesus actually says to anyone, including his disciples that they must die for him to show his love for him. He does say in Matthew 16:24-25 to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” Jesus doesn’t command his disciples to die for him, he gives them a choice. On to the rooster...

In John 13:38, Jesus says to Peter “Will you lay down your life for me? Truly, truly, I say to you, the rooster will not crow till you have denied me three times.” When do roosters crow? They crow in the morning, about when the sun rises. How to interpret Verse 38? It’s not that the rooster will wait until Peter denies Jesus three times before he starts crowing; it’s that before morning comes around when the rooster crows, Peter will, in one day previous to the morning the rooster crows next, deny Jesus three times. We see in John Chapter 18, Jesus’ prediction of Peter denying Jesus comes true.

The first time is in John 18:15–17 when Jesus, having been arrested, is brought before a high priest along with one of his disciples. The high priest says in Verse 14 that “one man should die for the people.” Peter must have gotten wind that he, or the disciple with Jesus, may be asked to die for the people, since when in Verse 17 a servant girl asks Peter, who was standing outside, whether he was one of Jesus’ disciples, he answers “I am not.” That was Peter’s first denial.

Then, in John 18:25–27, others, in Verse 25, ask Peter if he is not one of Jesus’ disciples, and again he says, “I am not.” That was his second denial. Then one of the servants asks him in Verse 26 if he was not in the garden with Jesus, and Peter denies it in Verse 27. That was his third denial. And low and behold, also in Verse 27, a rooster crows!

Think of it. in Verse 13, Peter says to Jesus he was willing to die for him, yet in his three denials he couldn’t so much as admit that he was Jesus’ disciple. Surely that calls Peter’s commitment to Jesus that he expresses in Chapter 13 into question to say the least, at that point in time anyway.

So long as the Bible is in existence, you know THAT rooster, he ain’t gonna die, figuratively speaking.
 
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peter2

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Think of it. in Verse 13, Peter says to Jesus he was willing to die for him, yet in his three denials he couldn’t so much as admit that he was Jesus’ disciple. Surely that calls Peter’s commitment to Jesus that he expresses in Chapter 13 into question to say the least, at that point in time anyway.

So long as the Bible is in existence, you know THAT rooster, he ain’t gonna die, figuratively speaking.
Hello, Newton
Do you mean so long as men don't admit to be Jesus' disciples, this rooster won't die ?
 
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newton3005

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Hello, Newton
Do you mean so long as men don't admit to be Jesus' disciples, this rooster won't die ?
That's one way of looking at it. Actually, so long as the Bible exist, the story of Peter and the Rooster will not die. Also, one lesson to take away from this, particularly in a subject and belief as sensitive as our belief in God through Jesus, is to think before we speak.
 
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peter2

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Also, one lesson to take away from this, particularly in a subject and belief as sensitive as our belief in God through Jesus, is to think before we speak.
Thank you for your answer, Newton.
What's your fear about speaking with too less forethinking ?
Didn't Peter often speak likewise, and Jesus kindly corrected him ?
 
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newton3005

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Thank you for your answer, Newton.
What's your fear about speaking with too less forethinking ?
Didn't Peter often speak likewise, and Jesus kindly corrected him ?
What you're implying is akin to a parent correcting a child's behavior by merely saying 'That's not nice,' instead of saying to the child that if the behavior continues there will be consequences. Lessons are often learned in terms of what can happen to us if we don't heed those lessons. We have seen those outcomes time and time again in the history of the world. In terms of earthly reasoning, what's the point in learning lessons if there are no consequences to not learning them? In the case of Jesus, it's a different story. Jesus being who he is, then, a true believer in God through him would heed the lessons he teaches as a matter of faith, without expecting consequences if we don't learn those lessons. He didn't have to say to his disciples, 'Do this or else.' They got the message, including Peter eventually.
 
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peter2

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He didn't have to say to his disciples, 'Do this or else.
I rated your post with an agree icon, then i just slightly qualify : seems to me you forget the new commandment, even though he gave it after resurrection, not while teaching.
I must leave the message for going to table, excuse me please
 
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rstrats

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In John 13:38, Jesus says to Peter “Will you lay down your life for me? Truly, truly, I say to you, the rooster will not crow till you have denied me three times.”
How do you reconcile that with Mark 14:68?
 
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David Lamb

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How do you reconcile that with Mark 14:68?
Mark does it himself. He writes:

“A second time the rooster crowed. Then Peter called to mind the word that Jesus had said to him, “Before the rooster crows twice, you will deny Me three times.” And when he thought about it, he wept.” (Mr 14:72 NKJV)

Mark gives the extra detail that when the rooster had crowed twice, Peter would have denied Jesus three times.
 
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rstrats

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Mark does it himself. He writes:

“A second time the rooster crowed. Then Peter called to mind the word that Jesus had said to him, “Before the rooster crows twice, you will deny Me three times.”
But in John 13:38, the Messiah says that the rooster won't crow until Peter denies Him three times. Mark says the rooster crowed after the first time.
 
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David Lamb

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But in John 13:38, the Messiah says that the rooster won't crow until Peter denies Him three times. Mark says the rooster crowed after the first time.
True. It seems to me that Mark supplies the extra detail. Matthew Poole wrote on John 13:38:

"Mark saith before the rooster crow twice So the other three evangelists must be expounded, who say no more than before the rooster crow, not mentioning how often; but the history makes it good, that our Saviour meant twice, for it was not before the second crowing of the rooster that Peter went out and wept bitterly."

I should perhaps add that I had to change the British word Poole used to the American English "rooster," because using the British word made the words "bless and do not curse" appear in my message!
 
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David Lamb

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David Lamb,

So you're saying that the authors of Matthew, Luke and John remembered incorrectly what the Messiah said, and that only the author of Mark remembered it correctly?
No, I am saying that Mark included the extra detail of it being the second time.
 
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Aseyesee

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My question would be ... why three times? (or why John's two times, though Jesus said three in his account) set aside Mark's [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crowing twice (we all know a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] does not crow just once) and John's account of Peter being in a place where Jesus heard this denial/ and of course that Jesus would deny Peter before his Father for denying him) and even though all of the accounts differ) Why not once, or five times ... before the morning comes ...
 
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