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Is This The New Normal?

A New Dawn

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Do you have evidence for the charge of treason or for the existence of whatever this "shadow government" you seem to believe exists?

-- A2SG, be nice to have that, I think Congress is looking for it....
Actually, yes. Several of the aides have admitted to using the autopen without authorization, and since none of them were elected to be the president of the United States, it is a treasonous offense. Although treason is generally considered a wartime offense, there are other times the accusation can be applied, if the intent to betray can be seen as the motivation. In the current investigation, Biden’s doctor, an old family friend, used the 5th as a response to all the questions asked of him, an indication of guilt, itself, but without the ability to ascertain the motive.

To be clear, I am not accusing Biden (he was the puppet), or the doctor (he somehow thought he was being loyal to a friend). It is the people who actually used the auto pen with the intent to betray. But why am I explaining to people who have accused Trump if treason without a shred of evidence?
 
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A New Dawn

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The article I posted quoted acting Defense Secretary Christopher Miller, no mind reading necessary.

Though, I can't help but notice you did not provide documentation for your version of events. Will that be forthcoming?


The Politifact article you quoted said: "[Former House sergeant-at-arms Paul] Irving told [Capitol Police Chief Steven] Sund ahead of the riot that he did not want National Guard troops at the Capitol on Jan. 6 because of bad "optics," the Washington Post and the New York Times reported."

Two different people, neither of them Nancy Pelosi, made two different statements, so yeah, we can have it both ways.

In the end, whether or not Trump actually did offer to call in the National Guard depends on whether or not you believe Donald Trump, a man convicted of fraud on multiple occasions, including 34 felony convictions.

-- A2SG, you can do your own math here....
1. You must have missed that part of the Politifact fact check that says the sergeant-at-arms reports to the speaker of the house. He is the go-between for the Speaker and the Capitol Police. I highly doubt that the second in command made that decision himself.

2. Steven Sund, chief of the Capitol Police at the time, requested for National Guard troops several times, before they were actually asked for by Pelosi and the sergeant-at-arms.

3. President Trump did request National Guard troops for Jan. 6 in the days leading up to that.


 
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A2SG

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Actually, yes. Several of the aides have admitted to using the autopen without authorization, and since none of them were elected to be the president of the United States, it is a treasonous offense.
Who exactly were these aides, and when will they be indicted?

Although treason is generally considered a wartime offense, there are other times the accusation can be applied, if the intent to betray can be seen as the motivation. In the current investigation, Biden’s doctor, an old family friend, used the 5th as a response to all the questions asked of him, an indication of guilt, itself, but without the ability to ascertain the motive.
First, invoking the fifth amendment is never viewed as an admission of guilt in a court of law.

Second, he cannot divulge private, confidential patient information per HIPAA. He could lose his license to practice medicine for that.

To be clear, I am not accusing Biden (he was the puppet), or the doctor (he somehow thought he was being loyal to a friend). It is the people who actually used the auto pen with the intent to betray.
And who, exactly, are these people? I look forward to their trial.

But why am I explaining to people who have accused Trump if treason without a shred of evidence?
When did I do that?

-- A2SG, you'd think I'd remember doing that....
 
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A2SG

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1. You must have missed that part of the Politifact fact check that says the sergeant-at-arms reports to the speaker of the house. He is the go-between for the Speaker and the Capitol Police. I highly doubt that the second in command made that decision himself.
Then please document exactly when Speaker Pelosi made that decision herself.

2. Steven Sund, chief of the Capitol Police at the time, requested for National Guard troops several times, before they were actually asked for by Pelosi and the sergeant-at-arms.
You forgot to provide documentation for this claim.

3. President Trump did request National Guard troops for Jan. 6 in the days leading up to that.


So why weren't they there, then? And what part did Speaker Pelosi herself play in that?

-- A2SG, she was the one you claimed was responsible, did you not?
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Why because Iran is and anarchist state? A country where anarchists are running rampant? Like they are in places in the US?

Are you arguing that because some left-leaning Americans engaged in violent protests and defied government mandates, the government can bypass the 3rd and 4th Amendments, deploy the military and federal agents, and arrest people without warrants?

If citizens aren't allowed to dissent or protest, how is America different from authoritarian countries where people have no rights? If the government can suppress civil disobedience or protest, then American democracy ceases to exist, as power shifts from the people to the government.
 
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DaisyDay

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Holy smokes, when are you going to acknowledge your whole warrant shtick is just patently false? LE has ALWAYS been able to arrest without a warrant.

If American citizens are attacking and threatening agents and their families it would indicate a shift away from democratic practices toward a more anarchist state.
It's not just warrantless arrests, but arrests without articulable probable cause.


Friday’s ruling comes after the ACLU of Southern California brought a case against the Trump administration last week on behalf of five people and immigration advocacy groups, alleging that DHS — which oversees Immigration and Customs Enforcement — has made unconstitutional arrests and prevented detainees’ access to attorneys.

The ruling is limited to the seven-county jurisdiction of the US Central District of California, which includes Los Angeles and surrounding areas.

Secret police disappearing people is authoritarian territory.
 
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A New Dawn

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So why weren't they there, then? And what part did Speaker Pelosi herself play in that?

-- A2SG, she was the one you claimed was responsible, did you not?
They weren’t there because Pelosi and the sergeant-at-arms decided “optics” was more important than safety.

I claimed she was part of the hierarchy that was responsible for the safety/security at the Capitol.
 
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wing2000

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Which means half were not any of the those terrible people, but just simply illegals living here illegally. Just like some being picked up today. Riots in LA, attacks on agents assassination attempts. Threatening families is how the left operates now and didnt back then.

Marketing a car wash where illegals where just trying to earn a living. The left didnt care. Not a peep, no riots, no assaults, no threats on agents children.

Rhere is NO excuse for these actions. The left didnt care back then. Its time to acknowledge the radicals have taken over the left.

As a reminder, I am not your straw man that you call the "Left."
 
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wing2000

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Judge Blocks Trump Administration Tactics in L.A. Immigration Raids


In the orders, the judge, Maame E. Frimpong of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, directed agents to stop racial profiling in the course of seeking out immigrants and mandated that the federal government, which has deployed hundreds of agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement and other agencies in Los Angeles County, ensure detainees have access to legal counsel.
“What the federal government would have this Court believe — in the face of a mountain of evidence presented in this case — is that none of this is actually happening,” the judge wrote of the tactics barred in her order.

She said that “roving patrols” without reasonable suspicion violated the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution and that denying access to lawyers violated the Fifth Amendment.
 
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A New Dawn

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Judge Blocks Trump Administration Tactics in L.A. Immigration Raids


In the orders, the judge, Maame E. Frimpong of the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, directed agents to stop racial profiling in the course of seeking out immigrants and mandated that the federal government, which has deployed hundreds of agents from Immigration and Customs Enforcement and other agencies in Los Angeles County, ensure detainees have access to legal counsel.
“What the federal government would have this Court believe — in the face of a mountain of evidence presented in this case — is that none of this is actually happening,” the judge wrote of the tactics barred in her order.

She said that “roving patrols” without reasonable suspicion violated the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution and that denying access to lawyers violated the Fifth Amendment.
Yeah, I’m thinking that since the Supreme Court greenlighted the program and slapped federal and district courts back saying this is outside their perview that this will soon follow suit.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Like who else will be next?
Obviously trans and queer and minority folks have already taken some legal hits. And then there's...

Charlie Kirk Calls Mamdani a ‘Parasite,’ Says ‘It’s Legal Immigration That Is Also the Problem’

"Maybe it’s time, maybe it is time for us to reconsider almost all of our political orthodoxies. Do immigrants really make our country better? Some do. ... [but] We are not a dumping ground for the rest of the planet.”

And even real live 'Born in the USA' Americans might be less than Americans if they hold politically incorrect opinions.

JD Vance: Some Americans Are More American Than Others

“I think the people whose ancestors fought in the Civil War have a ... lot more claim over America than the people who say they don’t belong,” he concluded.

Confederate ancestry >> free speech
 
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wing2000

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Yeah, I’m thinking that since the Supreme Court greenlighted the program and slapped federal and district courts back saying this is outside their perview that this will soon follow suit.

The government will have to convince an appeals court (assuming the decision is appealed) that it did not violate the rights of people articulated in the 4th and 5th amendment.
 
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A New Dawn

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The government will have to convince an appeals court (assuming the decision is appealed) that it did not violate the rights of people articulated in the 4th and 5th amendment.
And the administration has followed the law in all the previous cases and I’m sure they will in this one, too, while it goes through the process.
 
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DaisyDay

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Me? I read everything that comes before me, even in this post. But most people on the left refuse to hear anything that runs counter to the leftist narrative, even when it comes from their own side. Case in point, they are trying to cancel Jake Tapper because of his book on Biden's mental health cover-up.
So, rather than back your post with evidence, you instead continue to make unevidenced swipes at "most people on the left", which still says everything about you and nothing about actual people on the left.
There was a credible report that came out during the presidential campaign that she did support them, I will try to find it.
Yeah, maybe try looking up your "facts" before posting rather than making a vague promise after it's challenged?
Thanks for the link. Has interesting stuff on it.

Can you be more specific, because according to the persons who were detained, themselves, they spent months at a time in solitary confinement and were abused by the prison staff. Most were incarcerated without charges ever being filed.
Can you provide evidence for these bald assertions?
Thanks for the AP article, from one of the leading left-leaning publications in the country.
Lol. It is, indeed, one of the leading publications globally.
But speaking to the "dozens of people charged have been convicted of serious crimes and sent to prison." That's great, but there were 1700+ that were arrested. And most of them were not convicted or jailed. Only the "dozens" who committed arson, or other really serious crimes.
Apples and oranges. There were roughly 9,000 demonstrations that year over a period of many months in jurisdictions all over the country. If you don't like the results, take it up with the local prosecutors. You want to compare that to a single riot in a single location on a single day? They're not comparable.
Compared to the majority who were thrown in jail for January 6 for walking around looking and taking pictures of the building, only a handful actually committed a crime.
Yet another unevidenced, counter-factual claim. For details, see this excellent, informative thread.
You all harp on the one cop who was beaten but refuse to acknowledge that one of the cops shot and killed an unarmed woman who was no danger to him, or that another woman was trampled to death from the hysteria (absolutely not a riot) that ensued from a cop shooting into the crowd outside. Neither of them were charged with anything. But nobody else was killed, just 2 Trump supporters. And the person who beat the cop served time in jail for it. The rest served 2-3 years with no charges being filed. THEY are the ones who did not get due process.
What a Gish Gallop! There were many more than a single cop beaten, the traitor Babbitt posed a threat to the people that the cop was charged with protecting, the trampled woman - ironically holding a "Don't Tread on Me" flag - died of a drug overdose. Who served 2-3 years without charges?
Nancy Pelosi, as Speaker of the House was in charge of the security of the Capitol.
No, she wasn't. Check your "facts".
The Sergeant at Arms (who is a member of the Capitol Police Dept.)) reports directly to her.
The House SSA reports to the Speaker and the House as a whole. The Senate SSA - equally responsible for security - reports to the Senate. Yet some people hypocritically want to put the blame on Mame but not McConnell? Pfft.

As chief law enforcement officer of the Senate, the sergeant at arms is charged with maintaining security in the Capitol and all Senate office buildings, as well as providing for the protection of senators. The sergeant at arms also has responsibility for and immediate supervision of the Senate floor, Chamber, and galleries. The sergeant at arms can compel senators to come to the Chamber to establish a quorum and helps to oversee the operations of the Capitol Police.​

Trump offered her the National Guard, TWICE, and she refused on the grounds of "optics" (because she had recently appeared to support defunding the police, and it wouldn't look good. She, Nancy Pelosi, admitted that very thing to her daughter, who recorded it and turned it over. So there is audio evidence for that.)
Who decided the "optics" wouldn't be good? It was Trump who declined to deploy them until hours into the riot as he was the one with the actual authority. Let's hear your "audio evidence".
The proud boys themselves, said that two "new members" came in and proceeded to ask if there were plans to storm the Capitol, but there weren't, and the "new members" came up with the plan. The FBI refuses to speak to Congress about it because of "ongoing investigations". I believe the proud boys over the swamp.
That is ridiculous. Jan 6 was planned for months. The riot was a diversion until the fake electors could be presented - but that didn't work as planned.
Please support the statement about Babbitt. She wanted to make her voice heard (her right), and was in the process of climbing through a window when she was shot. She was unarmed and the other cops around the one who shot her lowered their weapons because they deemed that she was no threat. Your comments are so biased that it is unbelievable. Do you mean to tell me that 4 armed men couldn't subdue one small woman? Really?
The one small woman was the spearhead of a riotous mob. Four armed men stopped the mob by shooting the person at the forefront.

How would the cops know whether or not the person, trespassing, crawling through a window to get to the senators who were mere yards away was armed or not? She was not alone as you well know.
And, for the record, I believe nothing that comes out of the DoJ's office, him being the person who weaponized the DoJ.
What a surprise. But, yes, Trump has definitely weaponized the DOJ and made it hyperpartisan.
And Trump, The person who offered the National Guard twice, who told the people who came to his speech to peacefully and patriotically go to make their voices heard. I can see how that is instigating. j/k
One behind-covering phrase, in the middle of an hours long speech, did not mitigate the rest of the instigating rhetoric.
It's OK to have an opinion about something. That was Trump's only fault. It's certainly not nearly as much of an instigation as Biden saying someone has to take out Trump who is a threat to democracy and someone taking him at his word and actually trying to assassinate him. But sure, go peacefully and patriotically can be quite threatening.
It is a lie to say that Biden urged his followers to assassinate Trump. Oddly, both the men who attempted it were MAGA (but you think they were influenced by Biden ^_^).

 
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rjs330

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Are you arguing that because some left-leaning Americans engaged in violent protests and defied government mandates, the government can bypass the 3rd and 4th Amendments
They aren't.

deploy the military and federal agents, and arrest people without warrants?
The military isnt arresting anyone. And federal agents may arrest without a warrant.
If citizens aren't allowed to dissent or protest, how is America different from authoritarian countries where people have no rights?
Who on earth has made any claim that citizens can't protest?
If the government can suppress civil disobedience or protest, then American democracy ceases to exist, as power shifts from the people to the government.
Government is NOT suppressing protests.

Rioting and attacking officers is NOT civil disobedience nor protest. American democracy ceases to exist when citizens engage in riots and assaults and threats to government agents instead of pursuing the rights of their constitutional republic and address their grievances through the democratic process.

And when they do so they are subject to arrest and imprisonment.
 
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essentialsaltes

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And even real live 'Born in the USA' Americans might be less than Americans if they hold politically incorrect opinions.

Trump says he’s considering ‘taking away’ comedian Rosie O’Donnell’s U.S. citizenship

O’Donnell was born in the United States and has a constitutional right to U.S. citizenship. The U.S. State Department notes on its website that U.S. citizens by birth or naturalization may relinquish U.S. nationality by taking certain steps – but only if the act is performed voluntary [sic] and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship.

“Because of the fact that Rosie O’Donnell is not in the best interests of our Great Country, I am giving serious consideration to taking away her Citizenship,” Trump wrote in a social media post on Saturday. He added that O’Donnell, who moved to Ireland in January, should stay in Ireland “if they want her.”
 
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ozso

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Obviously trans and queer and minority folks have already taken some legal hits. And then there's...

Charlie Kirk Calls Mamdani a ‘Parasite,’ Says ‘It’s Legal Immigration That Is Also the Problem’

"Maybe it’s time, maybe it is time for us to reconsider almost all of our political orthodoxies. Do immigrants really make our country better? Some do. ... [but] We are not a dumping ground for the rest of the planet.”

And even real live 'Born in the USA' Americans might be less than Americans if they hold politically incorrect opinions.

JD Vance: Some Americans Are More American Than Others

“I think the people whose ancestors fought in the Civil War have a ... lot more claim over America than the people who say they don’t belong,” he concluded.

Confederate ancestry >> free speech
That's really weak evidence.

Kirk is simply a civilian activist and as usual that single sentence is probably cherry picked, edited, and out of context.

When it comes Vance's statement, what stands out is "people who say they don’t belong”. So what he's addressing is gatekeeping against certain Americans. The left has been on a blatant campaign to crush and erase southern American history and culture.
 
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ozso

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Trump says he’s considering ‘taking away’ comedian Rosie O’Donnell’s U.S. citizenship

O’Donnell was born in the United States and has a constitutional right to U.S. citizenship. The U.S. State Department notes on its website that U.S. citizens by birth or naturalization may relinquish U.S. nationality by taking certain steps – but only if the act is performed voluntary [sic] and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship.

“Because of the fact that Rosie O’Donnell is not in the best interests of our Great Country, I am giving serious consideration to taking away her Citizenship,” Trump wrote in a social media post on Saturday. He added that O’Donnell, who moved to Ireland in January, should stay in Ireland “if they want her.”
Not good enough. She should be put on the first rocket to Mars.
 
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essentialsaltes

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The left has been on a blatant campaign to crush and erase southern American history and culture.
It is the MAGA crowd that want to erase or whitewash the shameful history of slavery, because it makes the modern descendants of people in these slave states have a sad.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Not good enough. She should be put on the first rocket to Mars.
Great, Poe or not, thanks for setting forth some next steps for enforcing adherence to political correctness.
 
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