What is Church teaching on yoga and reiki?

JimR-OCDS said:

The Tao, which means "the way," existed long before Christ revealed that He is the way and the truth.

Did all the people who practiced Taoism hundreds of years before they had knowledge of Christ, end
up in Hell?

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When Jesus descended to the place of the dead, he called out to all who were there.

Those who did not fall under the category described in the Psalm, would have followed Him out.

The true answer is, we do not know.

JimR-OCDS said:

First off, Reiki and Yoga are not the same.

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I didn't say that they were.

JimR-OCDS said:

Reiki is New Age, and most likely not true as has been proven over the years.

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It's a readapted form of ancient mysticism focussed on healing. However, one time a person used Reiki in a reverse application and caused harm to me. So I'd say it's real, what to do with it is the question.

JimR-OCDS said:

Yoga on the other hand is ancient and existed before Christ.

For us Americans, we do mostly "gym yoga," which is exorcise, nothing more.

Intention of whom you worship makes all the difference and not the position your body goes into during
exorcise.

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Stretches are fine, taking it too far results in poses that become problematic.

Gregory Thompson said:

When Jesus descended to the place of the dead, he called out to all who were there.

Those who did not fall under the category described in the Psalm, would have followed Him out.

The true answer is, we do not know.

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And yet the Catholic Church teaches that those through no fault of their own, do not know Christ, can
be saved.

I don't know of Scripture that says when Jesus descended into the place of the dead he called out to those who were there.

Where did you get this?

JimR-OCDS said:

The Tao, which means "the way," existed long before Christ revealed that He is the way and the truth.

Did all the people who practiced Taoism hundreds of years before they had knowledge of Christ, end
up in Hell?

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I think "Tao" was just an easy way to label the dynamic, ever-flowing process that shapes the cosmos and human life. I did not really get much our of the Tao te Ching.

Tao (The Way) that can be spoken of is not the Constant Tao’
The name that can be named is not a Constant Name.
Nameless, is the origin of Heaven and Earth;
The named is the Mother of all things. Thus,
the constant void enables one to observe the true essence.
The constant being enables one to see the outward manifestations.
These two come paired from the same origin.
But when the essence is manifested, It has a different name.
This same origin is called “The Profound Mystery.”
As profound the mystery as It can be, It is the Gate to the essence of all life.

The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Tao.
The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name.

(Conceived of as) having no name, it is the Originator of heaven and earth;
(conceived of as) having a name, it is the Mother of all things.

Always without desire we must be found,
If its deep mystery we would sound;
But if desire always within us be,
Its outer fringe is all that we shall see.

Under these two aspects, it is really the same; but as development
takes place, it receives the different names.
Together we call them the Mystery. Where the Mystery is the deepest is the gate of all that
is subtle and wonderful.

Gregory Thompson said:

I didn't say that they were.


It's a readapted form of ancient mysticism focussed on healing. However, one time a person used Reiki in a reverse application and caused harm to me. So I'd say it's real, what to do with it is the question.

Stretches are fine, taking it too far results in poses that become problematic.

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Taking it too far would mean going into the spirituality of Hinduism or some other spirituality other than
Christianity.

I remember Fr Z get upset when people who do Yoga, did the 14 stations using Yoga. I saw what they were doing
and thought it was great. He was upset as he usually is.

Akita Suggagaki said:

Infuse non-Christian energy? Is it either / or? Can energy be neutral?

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Even the electromagnetic energy in our bodies isn't neutral as it conveys thoughts.

Akita Suggagaki said:

I think it would really be stretching the concepts to integrate Reiki into Christianity. Like radiation therapy. Reiki (if it works at all) does so by manipulating the material realm, body energy. If is effective, like radiation therapy, I would have no problem with it as a non spiritual intervention.

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Reiki Masters can "Reiki" long distance, it's a bit more than just body energy.

The issue with these types of treatments is it leaves a connection that doesn't dissipate ... which can contaminate the subconscious.

The main question as to the feasibility of such an endeavor would be ... what difference would there be of a Christian praying for God to heal someone and using a VPN tunnel to pour Holy spirit through it?

The answer that first comes to mind is that in relying on the Trinitarian God, the essence of each person is respected. The worldly methods use the framework of the deteriorated world which results in side effects.

So in essence, there's no need to reiki, pray for an amplification of faith so prayers for healing are more effective.

JimR-OCDS said:

And yet the Catholic Church teaches that those through no fault of their own, do not know Christ, can
be saved.

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I read something like that in the catechism. This is true that there is a possibility.

JimR-OCDS said:

I don't know of Scripture that says when Jesus descended into the place of the dead he called out to those who were there.

Where did you get this?

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I read it here. 1st Peter 3:18-22

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits"

Gregory Thompson said:

Even the electromagnetic energy in our bodies isn't neutral as it conveys thoughts.

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But that is moral status we give it.

Gregory Thompson said:

Reiki Masters can "Reiki" long distance, it's a bit more than just body energy.

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But is it not still considered in the material realm, like UHF, and VHF? Or is it considered spiritual?

Gregory Thompson said:

The issue with these types of treatments is it leaves a connection that doesn't dissipate ... which can contaminate the subconscious.

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I can believe that.

Gregory Thompson said:

The main question as to the feasibility of such an endeavor would be ... what difference would there be of a Christian praying for God to heal someone and using a VPN tunnel to pour Holy spirit through it?

The answer that first comes to mind is that in relying on the Trinitarian God, the essence of each person is respected. The worldly methods use the framework of the deteriorated world which results in side effects.

So in essence, there's no need to reiki, pray for an amplification of faith so prayers for healing are more effective.

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No need since it is ineffective and possibly damaging.

Akita Suggagaki said:

But is it not still considered in the material realm, like UHF, and VHF? Or is it considered spiritual?

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Since the Tao (for lack of a name) is involved, it may be spiritual.

But not entirely sure, leaving definition open just in case.

Gregory Thompson said:

Since the Tao (for lack of a name) is involved, it may be spiritual.

But not entirely sure, leaving definition open just in case.

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I have always though in terms of a continuum. That is from gross (physical) to subtle (Spiritual). We draw a line at the limits of physical perception.

Akita Suggagaki said:

I have always though in terms of a continuum. That is from gross (physical) to subtle (Spiritual). We draw a line at the limits of physical perception.

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One thought I had about it was, maybe it's not a spirit at all but a part of the original creation. It may be severely deteriorated from overuse.

Gregory Thompson said:

One thought I had about it was, maybe it's not a spirit at all but a part of the original creation. It may be severely deteriorated from overuse.

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Well I do think there is some kind of vital energy Qi, Chi, Prana or whatever. And it is subtle yet physical. Science cannot really verify it well. The are ways to photograph auras and such, and measure electric currents, etc. I think there really are people who can direct it, Qigong. It is not spiritual. It is physical but too subtle for our instruments to yet measure.

Akita Suggagaki said:

Well I do think there is some kind of vital energy Qi, Chi, Prana or whatever. And it is subtle yet physical. Science cannot really verify it well. The are ways to photograph auras and such, and measure electric currents, etc. I think there really are people who can direct it, Qigong. It is not spiritual. It is physical but too subtle for our instruments to yet measure.

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To me the chi is just electrical impulses within the body that a person who is trained can move to various parts of the body.


My years ago, I read a book on Taoism, written in 1922, long before the new age movement polluted it,
I don't recall the name of the author, and I took the book out of the public library.

In the book, the author describes Yin and Yang and not according to what we hear today. He wrote that the
yin was the essence of our belief, and the yang was the physical act responding to what we believe.
He also wrote that after Confucianism became a driving force in China, true Taoist teaching changed.
I don't know, but what I read at the time made sense.

To me this meant that your belief system is what helps you to react. If your belief system is
corrupt or nonexistent, you'll probably act accordingly, i.e. corrupt and immoral. If it is belief
of faith in God, you'll act according to the faith you have.

As I read in "No Man Is An Island" by Thomas Merton. True freedom isn't the privilege of
choosing good from evil, but only the ability to choose only good. Few choose evil knowing
it their choice will end up being bad for themselves. God can only choose good. In Scripture
we find what Jesus said;
"Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

My guess re things like yoga and reiki are motivated primarily by people seeking healing from pain and suffering. I remember reading a book by the late, lifelong Catholic ( & former priest, later married)Francis MacNutt titled: “Healing” around 20 years ago; it seemed doctrinally sound & satisfactory in its purpose. He wrote other books on healing also and founded ( with his wife Judith)an ecumenical Christian based “Christian Healing Ministries”.

Is there any emphasis on using methods of the likes of Frances MacNutt for health & healing in a more Christian way rather than non Christian ways? I am not inherently opining to reject whatever is good etc. ( Philippians 4:8 etc.) just wondering if what we already might have could be utilized more?

Info on Frances MacNutt.

JimR-OCDS said:

. He wrote that the
yin was the essence of our belief, and the yang was the physical act responding to what we believe.

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I think the term can be applied to any complementary pairs.

Lukaris said:

just wondering if what we already might have could be utilized more?

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Maybe but no one wants to fund the research that would validate it.

Akita Suggagaki said:

I think the term can be applied to any complementary pairs.

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Thats one of the differences that I saw.

Today, yin and yang are seen as opposites and applied to many things, i.e. female, make
black, white etc.

The author of the book never went down that path and said Taoism got polluted over the centuries.

I don't know, but I believe that the essence of our beliefs(yin) shapes our behavior(yang).

JimR-OCDS said:

But he's correct and I've heard priests say the same thing.

If you can't separate Hindu spirituality from the exorcise, then you'll have a problem
doing any exorcise, for much comes out of Greek culture. As it is, if you go to
most gym classes, you'll end up doing yoga stretching without even knowing it.
Yoga stretching is part of the exorcise routines in most of the exorcise programs.
Are you worshiping pagan gods doing these stretches? Of course not.

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Do you suppose one will see yoga exercises in heaven, in the Kingdom of God? Reflect for awhile on this petition in the Our Father:

Thy Kingdom come!
Thy will be done as it is in heaven.

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Shall we pray for His Kingdom to come - now - and pray that His will be done - now - as it is in heaven; meanwhile feeling at liberty to be doing what we have never heard to be His will - that is, that we are free to do yoga exercises.

And consider this, a Scriptural report of His will:

Rev 2:12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: 'The words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword.
Rev 2:13 "'I know where you dwell, where Satan's throne is; you hold fast my name and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my witness, my faithful one, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice immorality.
Rev 2:15 So you also have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
Rev 2:16 Repent then. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone which no one knows except him who receives it.'

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This is the footnote on verses 14-15 in the NABRE on the USCCB website:

* [2:14–15] Like Balaam, the biblical prototype of the religious compromiser (cf. Nm 25:1–3; 31:16; 2 Pt 2:15; Jude 11), the Nicolaitans in Pergamum and Ephesus (Rev 2:6) accommodated their Christian faith to paganism. They abused the principle of liberty enunciated by Paul (1 Cor 9:19–23).

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There is no space in God's Kingdom in Heaven for a "liberty" not in God's will. Who would pray one thing and do the opposite is not being true.

JimR-OCDS said:

But he's correct and I've heard priests say the same thing.

If you can't separate Hindu spirituality from the exorcise, then you'll have a problem
doing any exorcise, for much comes out of Greek culture. As it is, if you go to
most gym classes, you'll end up doing yoga stretching without even knowing it.
Yoga stretching is part of the exorcise routines in most of the exorcise programs.
Are you worshiping pagan gods doing these stretches? Of course not.

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I do not agree with with that assessment. Exercise for physical health or meditation is fine but of limited value for our heavenly selves.
Yoga says we are focusing on God and want to come to enlightenment, but that is not the path Christ has shown us, or else He would have taught it.
Yoga takes the focus off of obeying God and puts the focus on ourselves. “I only do it for exercise.” “It makes me feel better, what could be wrong with it?” “It’s not worship”
Well, regardless of our intention, yoga mimics physical postures used in the worship of Hindu “gods” aka demons. You may not realize it, but the demons can see what you do, and use your unguarded relaxed state against you. Also it’s just ignorant.
Think if I went through a gang neighborhood and started throwing Crip and Blood signs. I could say that they don’t mean anything to me, but the people that live there see things differently, and my life may not go well if I keep throwing those signs.
I believe that Thomas Merton was in error and was seduced by false ecumenism. Zen is not life, Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Satan and his demons are perfectly capable of manipulating your feelings and even thoughts, as scripture says he seeks whom he may devour.
Satan as the adversary wants to make himself out to be God. His best way is imitation, and it is not flattery. Demon possession is the imitation of the incarnation. Pagan religions imitate aspects of Christianity to deceive, as they are not real worship, but a replacement for real worship. Scripture says that there is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Satan will do all he can to make you think there is nothing wrong and what you are doing is absolutely right, so much so that you will not be convinced otherwise.
But just think of the fool in a gang neighborhood throwing signs, do you want to appear before Jesus and tell him how great those demon signs made you feel? Worship the Lord your God and Him only shalt thou serve, and don’t tell me that you are doing it while you are giving a shout out to demons
The great Fulton Sheen took the opposite view of Thomas Merton. The goal of evangelizing is not to learn pagan religions and tell us how great they are because they have some things similar to Christianity. The wise evangelist observes those similarities and uses them to tell pagans how great Jesus is. I heard a story that a man tried to tell Bishop Sheen how he read a book that melded zen and Christianity. Bishop Sheen threw him out and said something to the effect of don’t speak to me of other gods and tell me how they look like Jesus, they are not Jesus
Our Lady of Guadalupe shows real evangelism with Juan Diego in Mexico in the sixteenth century. The indigenous peoples were trapped in paganism and practiced human blood sacrifice.
Juan Diego brought the testimony form Our Lady and the understanding of blood sacrifice, but preached Christ and Him crucified. The king has already shed His blood for us and we do not do him honor by shedding more blood. We thank Him and present our bodies as living sacrifices.
Mexico stopped human sacrifice and became one of the most Catholic nations on Earth.
I want to see zen or practitioners come to an understanding and love of Our Lord Jesus, not seduce Christians to believe that there is nothing wrong with zen and Buddha is some how equal to Jesus

Exercise is good, meditation is good. Meditate on the Lord and His word. Theresa of Avilla has great teaching on meditative prayer. John of the Cross has teaching on the ascent of Mt Carmel. You may say they are similar to Buddhism, but they are not zen. They focus on Christ

I will not judge a person who thinks that yoga is ok. His works are between him and God, but don’t try and bring yoga class to my parish or try and teach it to my kids. It is junk, and what I was taught in high school, by well meaning but ignorant Christian Brothers. It took me 38 years and the grace of God to get over that error.
If you like zen, read John of the Cross and Theresa of Avila instead

Spiritual practices that are not of Christ put souls at risk. Modern exorcists tell us that God is not the only one that broadcasts on that channel. Test the spirits to see who is speaking, approaching it with a naive can’t we all just get along attitude will only lead to trouble

boughtwithaprice said:

Exercise for physical health or meditation is fine but of limited value for our heavenly selves.
Yoga says we are focusing on God and want to come to enlightenment, but that is not the path Christ has shown us, or else He would have taught it.
Yoga takes the focus off of obeying God and puts the focus on ourselves. “I only do it for exercise.” “It makes me feel better, what could be wrong with it?” “It’s not worship”

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Yoga doesn't say we are focusing on God and want to come to enlightenment, unless that is your intention.
You can have the same intention in anything you do, including lifting weights or doing calisthenics,
It very possible if you're doing exorcises of any type, you're including yoga, but you are not aware
of it.

Yoga does not take your focus off of obeying God, if anything, feeling physically healthy helps a
person to focus on God. Doing God's will is the goal for any Christian who seeks union with God.

I pray to God all the time I do yoga exorcises, just as I pray when lifting weights or doing calisthenics.
Intention of the will is what makes a person worship God or not. Various postures in yoga help
to strengthen, stretch and balance and nothing more. Yoga experts as in India, include Hindu
spiritual practices which Christians and Jews do not do. It's why the guru's from India say that
what we do here in the US, is not yoga. As priests have said, it's gym-yoga, nothing spiritual
about it.

You don't have to do yoga to feel healthy and you can do something else and that is your choice,
But don't condemn those of us who do yoga exorcise for health alone.