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Does the "reign in the influence of Israel" movement need a Tucker Carlson to be credible?

FAITH-IN-HIM

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If you stopped calling them elected representatives people would not be pointing out that elections haven’t been held.
They are elected by the Palestinian people. 44% of them voted for Hamas to come to power.
 
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Desk trauma

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JosephZ

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FAITH-IN-HIM

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When you try to use an election from 20 years ago to justify current actions, it merits mention. This is a chart of the age distribution of the population in Gaza (from 2020). Everyone under the black line had literally zero say in the last election results, and everyone above the green line would be eligible to vote today:

View attachment 367330

Irrelevant to the point. This isn't "complaining" about how Hamas hasn't allowed elections - it's pointing out that 20-year-old electoral results are not a valid proxy for the feelings of the Palestinian people. Especially when post-election polling showed that the primary motivation behind them voting for Hamas was their anti-corruption platform; most voters (65-75%) disagreed with their stance on Israel and desired a two-state solution to the conflict (Source 1; Source 2).

IF Hamas is not the elected Palestinian authority for the past 20 years and has oppressed its own people. If the global community acknowledges this, why have those supporting Palestinian innocence remained silent for two decades?

Why has there not been international pressure or a United Nations resolution to remove Hamas from power and allow Palestinians to be governed by their elected representatives?

Why has there been very attention to Hamas's oppression of Palestinians over the past 20 years? Despite receiving billions in international aid, much of it has reportedly funded military activities instead of humanitarian needs. If Hamas does not represent Palestinians, why has significant funding—such as $2 billion yearly —been allocated to them, and why do its members serve as representatives at the UN?

The suffering of Palestinians under Hamas over the past two decades has largely gone unaddressed. There has been limited attention paid to both the hardships faced by the population and the actions of Hamas toward its own people.

But all of a sadden the world community realized Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. I wonder why.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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20 years ago, with no elections held since.

What actions have been taken over the past 20 years by those who now assert that Palestinians are not represented by Hamas?

The answer is that, on average, the world community provided $2 billion annually to Hamas.
 
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Desk trauma

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What actions have been taken over the past 20 years by those who now assert that Palestinians are not represented by Hamas?

My assertion it is incorrect to call them elected representatives as you claimed due to them not holding elections for almost 20 years.
 
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Pommer

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Why not? They support Hamas. They have made that clear.
HAMAS official: Do you still support HAMAS, or would you like to ‘disappear’?
I’d probably “support HAMAS”, too, if this is the case.
 
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Fantine

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Elections have not been held in Gaza for almost twenty years.
And since half the population of Gaza is under 18 that means that at least half were not even alive when the vote took place and many if not most of the others were children, too young to vote. You are blaming the dead for their decisions, but most of those still alive we're completely innocent. I cannot say the word innocent often enough. I wish I could put it in bold face in color underlined. Absolutely innocent. Israel is killing and starving the innocent.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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My assertion it is incorrect to call them elected representatives as you claimed due to them not holding elections for almost 20 years.

They are elected officials who came to power with 44% voter support. For the past 20 years, the international community has sent funds to assist Palestinians and had no issues working with Hamas.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Why has there not been international pressure or a United Nations resolution to remove Hamas from power and allow Palestinians to be governed by their elected representatives?
Why has there been no UN resolution to remove Kim Jong Un from power and allow North Koreans to be governed by their elected representatives? Generally speaking, the international community tries to stay out of the business of regime change. See how that's gone in Iraq and Afghanistan if you want a concrete reason why.
But all of a sadden the world community realized Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinian people. I wonder why.
It's not a sudden realization - it's only coming up because people like you are trying to use the fact that Hamas governs the territory to justify the wholesale slaughter of Palestinians. I wouldn't say that the actions of North Korea's government would justify atrocities on the North Korean people either.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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And since half the population of Gaza is under 18 that means that at least half were not even alive when the vote took place and many if not most of the others were children, too young to vote. You are blaming the dead for their decisions, but most of those still alive we're completely innocent. I cannot say the word innocent often enough. I wish I could put it in bold face in color underlined. Absolutely innocent. Israel is killing and starving the innocent.

Did people under this age live in Palestine before the war? Did these Palestine lived under the oppression of Hamas?

If the answer is yes, then a question arises: why was no action taken in response? Why were billions of dollars sent to Hamas each year? What happened to the outcry we here about “poor Palestinian” past 20 years.

Here's why: No one cared or responded when Hamas diverted billions of dollars for personal use or purchased rockets. There have been no public demonstrations on the streets of London concerning the plight of Palestinian civilians. No students at Columbia or Harvard have delivered speeches regarding the suffering experienced by Palestinians under the control of Hamas.

No one cared for Palestinian. Simple as that.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Why has there been no UN resolution to remove Kim Jong Un from power and allow North Koreans to be governed by their elected representatives? Generally speaking, the international community tries to stay out of the business of regime change. See how that's gone in Iraq and Afghanistan if you want a concrete reason why.

It's not a sudden realization - it's only coming up because people like you are trying to use the fact that Hamas governs the territory to justify the wholesale slaughter of Palestinians. I wouldn't say that the actions of North Korea's government would justify atrocities on the North Korean people either.

The international community does not intervene when regimes change and people are oppressed. Got it.

But

The international community tends to show concern for oppressed populations primarily when Israelis defend themselves. .

Isn't that a double standard from the international community?
 
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Desk trauma

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They are elected officials who came to power with 44% voter support.
Then murdered their opposition to consolidate power and did away with elections hence my objection to calling them elected officials. Do you apply this standard to other dictators or just those in Gaza?
 
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RocksInMyHead

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The international community tends to show concern for oppressed populations primarily when Israelis defend themselves. .
The international community tends to show concern when powerful nations/forces attack weaker ones in a disproportionate manner without regard for civilian lives.

If you want a recent example, Russia has faced plenty of criticism for its attacks on Ukraine, despite the claim that they are merely defending themselves from NATO aggression.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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The international community tends to show concern when powerful nations/forces attack weaker ones in a disproportionate manner without regard for civilian lives.

If you want a recent example, Russia has faced plenty of criticism for its attacks on Ukraine, despite the claim that they are merely defending themselves from NATO aggression.

Russian aggression toward Ukraine was unprovoked, whereas Israel was attacked by an external force; this is a significant distinction.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Russian aggression toward Ukraine was unprovoked
Russia disagrees, which is all that matters for the purposes of this discussion. Now, do you care to address the actual point?
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Then murdered their opposition to consolidate power and did away with elections hence my objection to calling them elected officials. Do you apply this standard to other dictators or just those in Gaza?

So Hamas was killing their own people?

Where was the outcry when Hamas was killing their own people?
 
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RocksInMyHead

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