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Does the "reign in the influence of Israel" movement need a Tucker Carlson to be credible?

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What are the reasons elections have not taken place in Gaza for the past 20 years?

Because once in power Hamas didn’t allow any more to take place. Bit inaccurate to call those in power elected representatives when elections haven’t happened in 20 years.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Much of what you said are semantics. of course drip irrigation is used worldwide. My point was that many many good things have come from Israel. I posted specific things...I never said AI and space tech were only specific to Israel. I said WE get some of those things developed IN Israel.
Right, my point was that it doesn't represent some sort of two-way partnership that would even be remotely close to symmetrical.

"We use some stuff that a citizen of country XYZ developed" isn't representative of the kind of partnership we're talking about.

We use some stuff that was made by residents of Italy, that doesn't mean we'd spend $30B per decade and unconditionally help the Italian government chase their enemies around the desert for 40 years.


What specific things has the government of Israel given the government of the US that would be a counterbalance to what the government of the US has given to the government of Israel?


As I noted, I'm not even suggesting denying weapons to Israel, my initial statement was that should buy that stuff from us with their own money.

When we develop something cool with our own R&D budget, we give it to them for free. When they develop something with the R&D money we give them, they make us pay retail.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Because once in power Hamas didn’t allow any more to take place. Bit inaccurate to call those in power elected representatives when elections haven’t happened in 20 years.

Palestinians knew Hamas is a terrorist reputation but still elected them; what outcome did they expect?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Palestinians knew Hamas is a terrorist reputation but still elected them; what outcome did they expect?
To add some context:

During their legislative session/elections in 2006...

The only choices they had were
Fatah (a corrupt nationalist party that was fractured)
Hamas (an Islamist group)

(and Hamas only won by a small majority)



That'd be like if people were stuck with an election between Rod Blagojevich and Richard Nixon, and then when they were saddled with corruption, dismissing their situation as "well, it's your own fault, you voted for corruption what did you expect???"
 
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Palestinians knew Hamas is a terrorist reputation but still elected them; what outcome did they expect?
Doesn’t change that it’s absurd to call those in power who haven’t held elections in twenty years “elected representatives”.
 
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JosephZ

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Palestinians knew Hamas is a terrorist reputation but still elected them; what outcome did they expect?
Hamas only received 44.45% of the vote in 2006, but it did give them a majority 74 seats in the 132 seat Palestinian Legislative Council at that time.

Hamas' control of Gaza came by force, not the will of the people.

Hamas gunmen seized military control of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, executing Fatah rivals and provoking the collapse of their power-sharing Palestinian Authority government.

As Fatah’s last security command centers fell after four days of fighting, Hamas military men in black masks moved unchallenged across Gaza City, hunting down foes, blowing up homes and dragging the body of a top Fatah militant through the streets.

Firing mortars, grenade launchers and automatic weapons, Hamas fighters captured the Gaza City headquarters of the Preventive Security, Intelligence and National Security agencies Thursday afternoon, and executed some of their captives. The Presidential Guard compound fell late in the evening. All were controlled by Fatah.

Earlier in the day, Hamas overran the main Fatah compound in the southern city of Rafah, giving it full control of the border with Egypt, a source of the smuggled weapons that have expanded the movement’s arsenal in recent months.

Hamas fighters overran the headquarters amid mortar rounds and gunfire. They raised green Hamas flags over the shattered two-story compound, kneeled to the ground in prayer and marched handcuffed Fatah gunmen into the streets, some shirtless or in their underwear.

 
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RocksInMyHead

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Because once in power Hamas didn’t allow any more to take place. Bit inaccurate to call those in power elected representatives when elections haven’t happened in 20 years.
Especially when you consider that well over half of the current voting-age population of Gaza was either too young to have voted in that election or not even born yet.
 
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ralliann

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Elections have not been held in Gaza for almost twenty years.
We have seen clearly who the Palestinians support. We have seen plenty of protests continually all over. Elections? Who needs it to know they fully support Hamas.
 
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ralliann

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Hamas only received 44.45% of the vote in 2006, but it did give them a majority 74 seats in the 132 seat Palestinian Legislative Council at that time.

Hamas' control of Gaza came by force, not the will of the people.

Hamas gunmen seized military control of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, executing Fatah rivals and provoking the collapse of their power-sharing Palestinian Authority government.

As Fatah’s last security command centers fell after four days of fighting, Hamas military men in black masks moved unchallenged across Gaza City, hunting down foes, blowing up homes and dragging the body of a top Fatah militant through the streets.

Firing mortars, grenade launchers and automatic weapons, Hamas fighters captured the Gaza City headquarters of the Preventive Security, Intelligence and National Security agencies Thursday afternoon, and executed some of their captives. The Presidential Guard compound fell late in the evening. All were controlled by Fatah.

Earlier in the day, Hamas overran the main Fatah compound in the southern city of Rafah, giving it full control of the border with Egypt, a source of the smuggled weapons that have expanded the movement’s arsenal in recent months.

Hamas fighters overran the headquarters amid mortar rounds and gunfire. They raised green Hamas flags over the shattered two-story compound, kneeled to the ground in prayer and marched handcuffed Fatah gunmen into the streets, some shirtless or in their underwear.

Why all the protests outside of Gaza, and the middle east?
 
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We have seen clearly who the Palestinians support. We have seen plenty of protests continually all over. Elections? Who needs it to know they sully support Hamas.
Regardless of support they’re not holding elections hence it’s incorrect to refer to those in power as elected.
 
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Why all the protests outside of Gaza, and the middle east?
I’m going to go out on a limb here and say opposition to the actions of the Israeli government.
 
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ralliann

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Regardless of support they’re not holding elections hence it’s incorrect to refer to those in power as elected.
Why not? They support Hamas. They have made that clear.
 
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ralliann

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I’m going to go out on a limb here and say opposition to the actions of the Israeli government.
Here's the problem. The actions of the Israeli government was self defense. They protested all over the place, for the destruction of Israel. Doing so while Hamas was still holding hostages. American as well as Israeli hostages. They are still not giving them up.
 
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Here's the problem. The actions of the Israeli government was self defense. They protested all over the place. Doing so while Hamas was still holding hostages. American as well as Israeli hostages. They are still not giving them up.
That precludes people from disagreeing with the actions of the Israeli government and protesting?
 
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ralliann

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That precludes people from disagreeing with the actions of the Israeli government and protesting?
What actions? This has been going on since Israel has been a nation. They want them dead.
 
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FAITH-IN-HIM

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Hamas only received 44.45% of the vote in 2006, but it did give them a majority 74 seats in the 132 seat Palestinian Legislative Council at that time.

Hamas' control of Gaza came by force, not the will of the people.

Hamas gunmen seized military control of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, executing Fatah rivals and provoking the collapse of their power-sharing Palestinian Authority government.

As Fatah’s last security command centers fell after four days of fighting, Hamas military men in black masks moved unchallenged across Gaza City, hunting down foes, blowing up homes and dragging the body of a top Fatah militant through the streets.

Firing mortars, grenade launchers and automatic weapons, Hamas fighters captured the Gaza City headquarters of the Preventive Security, Intelligence and National Security agencies Thursday afternoon, and executed some of their captives. The Presidential Guard compound fell late in the evening. All were controlled by Fatah.

Earlier in the day, Hamas overran the main Fatah compound in the southern city of Rafah, giving it full control of the border with Egypt, a source of the smuggled weapons that have expanded the movement’s arsenal in recent months.

Hamas fighters overran the headquarters amid mortar rounds and gunfire. They raised green Hamas flags over the shattered two-story compound, kneeled to the ground in prayer and marched handcuffed Fatah gunmen into the streets, some shirtless or in their underwear.

You are right , in 2006 44% Palestinian voted Hamas and elected them as their leader. Knowing very well that Hamas is a terrorist organization.

Winning 44% of the vote is huge victory in a parliamentary system. For instance, in 2025, the Christian Democratic Union got 28%, and F Marzi became Germany's chancellor. No one say Marzi doesn’t represent most Germans.

Why do some liberals keep repeating that most Palestinians didn't vote for Hamas? They won the election by security the most vote. election has consequences.

Those complaining about Hamas not allowing Palestinian elections for the past 20 years should consider where international actors like the UN or EU have been during this time. Why hasn’t there been pressure on Hamas to step down if it doesn't represent Palestinians?
 
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Why do some liberals keep repeating that most Palestinians didn't vote for Hamas? They won the election by security the most vote. election has consequences.
If you stopped calling them elected representatives people would not be pointing out that elections haven’t been held.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Why do some liberals keep repeating that most Palestinians didn't vote for Hamas? They won the election by security the most vote. election has consequences.
When you try to use an election from 20 years ago to justify current actions, it merits mention. This is a chart of the age distribution of the population in Gaza (from 2020). Everyone under the black line had literally zero say in the last election results, and everyone above the green line would be eligible to vote today:

1752250803533.png

Those complaining about Hamas not allowing Palestinian elections for the past 20 years should consider where international actors like the UN or EU have been during this time. Why hasn’t there been pressure on Hamas to step down if it doesn't represent Palestinians?
Irrelevant to the point. This isn't "complaining" about how Hamas hasn't allowed elections - it's pointing out that 20-year-old electoral results are not a valid proxy for the feelings of the Palestinian people. Especially when post-election polling showed that the primary motivation behind them voting for Hamas was their anti-corruption platform; most voters (65-75%) disagreed with their stance on Israel and desired a two-state solution to the conflict (Source 1; Source 2).
 
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