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EXCLUSIVE: Official Vatican Report Exposes Major Cracks in Foundation of Traditionis Custodes

zippy2006

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What he actually said according to this article.

In March 2020, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s prefect Cardinal Luis Ladaria wrote to the presidents of bishops’ conferences, asking them to distribute a questionnaire about how Benedict XVI’s Latin Mass rules affected bishops’ dioceses.

Pope Francis said the responses to the survey “reveal a situation that preoccupies and saddens me, and persuades me of the need to intervene.”
Here is the actual document:

With the passage of thirteen years, I instructed the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to circulate a questionnaire to the Bishops regarding the implementation of the Motu proprio Summorum Pontificum. The responses reveal a situation that preoccupies and saddens me, and persuades me of the need to intervene. Regrettably, the pastoral objective of my Predecessors...

...[Summorum Pontificum] was exploited to widen the gaps, reinforce the divergences, and encourage disagreements that injure the Church, block her path, and expose her to the peril of division.

(Letter of Holy Father Francis to the Bishops, regarding Traditionis Custodes)
So perhaps you are right, in a way. Francis did not explicitly claim that the bishops told him to make a change. He claimed that they spoke of problems, and that his change was based on these problems.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Here is the actual document:


So perhaps you are right, in a way. Francis did not explicitly claim that the bishops told him to make a change. He claimed that they spoke of problems, and that his change was based on these problems.
Right and what were the problems? It may be the division in the Church as a result, or it was the negative effect
the Bishops expressed in the survey. We don't know, but to make Pope Francis as a heretic over the issue, and this
has happened, shows how the devil is working to divide the Church. Divide and conquer is still a strategy of
the enemy and it is happening in the Church and in the West.

As I witnessed in my former parish that had the TLM based on about five parishioners who requested the TLM. Per then Pople
Benedict XVI, the Bishop of the dioceses had to make the TLM available to them. As a result, the TLM attendance was large
enough to disrupt the parish and the large majority of the attendees, did not belong to that parish, and a few were not even
from that diocese. The pastor was relieved when it ended.
 
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zippy2006

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Right and what were the problems? It may be the division in the Church as a result, or it was the negative effect
the Bishops expressed in the survey. We don't know, but to make Pope Francis as a heretic over the issue, and this
has happened, shows how the devil is working to divide the Church. Divide and conquer is still a strategy of
the enemy and it is happening in the Church and in the West.
I think the question is whether the poll was utilized in a misleading manner.

As I witnessed in my former parish that had the TLM based on about five parishioners who requested the TLM. Per then Pople
Benedict XVI, the Bishop of the dioceses had to make the TLM available to them. As a result, the TLM attendance was large
enough to disrupt the parish and the large majority of the attendees, did not belong to that parish, and a few were not even
from that diocese. The pastor was relieved when it ended.
That's understandable.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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I think the question is whether the poll was utilized in a misleading manner.
I believe it was not used in a misleading manner.

As I posted before, the Church does not want to make it look like the Pope is going to make decisions based on polls.
If she did, they Church would have to approve abortion as many Catholics support it.
 
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zippy2006

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As I posted before, the Church does not want to make it look like the Pope is going to make decisions based on polls.
And as I posted before, if someone does not want it to look like they are making decisions based on polls, then they should not claim that they are making decisions based on polls. When the Pope literally says, "The responses reveal a situation that preoccupies and saddens me, and persuades me of the need to intervene...," he is obviously making a decision based on a poll.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Pope Francis didn't say one way or another what was in the survey. Perhaps it merely revealed the division that exist
in the Church, which saddens him.
Not that much division is evident in the survey. In either Diane Montagna's publishes summary or now in the msgr Bux national results. Pope Francis created more division with his moto proprio than existed before his moto proprio. I wonder if that made him sad at all. It sure made a whole lot of other people sad.
 
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chevyontheriver

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I believe it was not used in a misleading manner.
The clear implication was that the polling clearly showed a problem the pope needed to fix. In other words, that the data from the poll would show a clear and present danger requiring the suppression of the traditional mass. The results now look like there was not any big problem to be fixed, everything was mostly OK, most counceled leaving it all alone, and that the holdout bishops that refused to implement Summorum Pontificum were about the only issue left.
As I posted before, the Church does not want to make it look like the Pope is going to make decisions based on polls.
If she did, they Church would have to approve abortion as many Catholics support it.
If you don't want it to look like you decide things based on polls then you should be very very quiet when running a poll, and you should not refer at all to a poll when you announce a decision.

We were all left to think that the results of the poll must have shown some terrible terrible things worldwide that needed immediate rectification. And those aren't there according to the Montagna or Bux sources. Are there any such sources?
 
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chevyontheriver

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And as I posted before, if someone does not want it to look like they are making decisions based on polls, then they should not claim that they are making decisions based on polls. When the Pope literally says, "The responses reveal a situation that preoccupies and saddens me, and persuades me of the need to intervene...," he is obviously making a decision based on a poll.
Or he is obviously making a decision with the claim he based his decision on a poll. I'm not seeing where his actions were based on the reportage we see by Montagna or Bux. What am I missing?
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Perhaps the Doctrine of Faith took the survey so the Pope wouldn't make a "for" or "rejection"
concerning the Latim Mass itself, but to get the atmosphere in the Church regarding Pope Benedicts
Summorum Pontificum?

What is known is Pope Francis desire for unity in the Church. The division regarding the ordinary
verses the extraordinary are real.

The division continues and is even deeper in forums like this.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Perhaps ….
Well perhaps.
What is known is Pope Francis desire for unity in the Church.
By calling so many people backwardists. That doesn’t sound like an expression of the desire for unity. Todos, todos, todos for everybody. Everybody but those who find value in an older thing. They get called backwardists.
The division regarding the ordinary
verses the extraordinary are real.
Real but not that common or that extreme.
The division continues and is even deeper in forums like this.
There isn’t, as far as I know, anyone in this forum that totally rejects the novus ordo.
 
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