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As Texas Flood Deaths Rise, Officials Blast Faulty Forecast by National Weather Service

Larniavc

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This is why Satellite phones are handy, which are designed to recieve signals from the NWS. Had the camps had one, for emergencies, this situation may not have happened - I mean, if we're looking for real solutions to real problems.

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I ALWAYS carry my Bat Fludd Repellant EVERYWHERE I go (even to the toilet). Frankly anyone who doesn't deserves everything they get get.
 
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Chesterton

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I'm running out of popcorn. Man, this is the most entertaining thread ever. At least since that time I tried to blame the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius on Joe Biden, and complained that the Romans should have had guns.
 
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rjs330

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Should we strive to be better, or should we save money by becoming worse since a perfect outcome can't be reached anyway?
First you have to prove things are worse. That hasn't been shown. We have had a lot of people die in weather related events throughout the years and we've been spending rhe money. So spending doesn't seem to have solved the problem if you are shooting for 100%.

Secondly acknowledging the fact that there isnt a 100% solution elevates the need to assess blame where there really is none to be had.

Can we also strive for better technologies that will aid in predictions? Yes, and we should. Anytime we can find tech that will help us avoid disasters thats good.

But simply trying to assess blame because some agency had to cut some money feom the budget is faulty logic. Becauae in THIS case THW did everything they were supposed to do. So money had NOTHING to do with this tragedy.

20/20 hindsight for blame is the wrong way to look at this. Maybe the camp should require all staff to have Emergency warnings on their phones. Maybe they already do. I don't know.

That might be something that the camp could do. But that still has nothing to do with saving money.
 
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rjs330

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You are missing the point. The joker is that it's the MAGA government of Texas that's doing the complaining.
Im responding to what people write on this thread.

And if Texas is complaining I would say the same thing to them.
 
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Desk trauma

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Should we strive to be better, or should we save money by becoming worse since a perfect outcome can't be reached anyway?
Too soon to discuss such things.
 
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rjs330

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Not sure what's being presented here. Are we being advised to shoot vital service provider equipment? What's going on.

...Like in protest?
I have NO idea why guns are even being mentioned in this thread. An attempt to derail?
 
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Fantine

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What specific vital services need to be restored? What specifically did DOGE cut out that would have made a difference in this situation?
600 highly trained and experienced meteorologists and climatologists. See articles linked earlier.
 
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rjs330

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I ALWAYS carry my Bat Fludd Repellant EVERYWHERE I go (even to the toilet). Frankly anyone who doesn't deserves everything they get get.
Mine sits on my utility belt next to my Shark Repellent Batspray.
 
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Fantine

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Maybe this thread shouldn't be in American Politics to begin with... Sends the wrong message.
No, it sends exactly the right message. The drastic cuts made in so many agencies make our country vulnerable not only to climactic disasters but also to disease. The NIH and CDC have been completely gutted. No more research is being done on Alzheimer's and many other deadly diseases. There is a 10% chance that another pandemic similar to covid will arise in the next few years. During covid, Trump only virtually handcuffed, bound and gagged the scientists who knew what they were doing to pursue his own intuitive mistakes. Now we don't even have anyone at all working on eradicating deadly diseases. Do you know what it costs for Medicaid to provide care to an Alzheimer's patient in a nursing home? The best way to save billions on Medicaid would be to continue working on the successful cures for Alzheimer's so that elderly people could live their lives out independently far more often. There is a promising drug that is very expensive right now but also very effective. President Trump prides himself on being able to make deals. He could save billions on Medicaid by making a deal with big Pharma to sell it to Medicaid at a good price. Since the patient in a nursing home costs Medicaid at least $100,000 a year, making making a deal on that drug would save $100,000 per person per year.
Wouldn't it be a miracle if president Trump tried to save money by making life better and more independent for a million senior citizens instead of making life immeasurably bleaker for 17 million Americans who would lose health care?
Doing a good deed while saving money might activate the feelings that one gets when doing good, feelings that he might not have experienced in many years or perhaps ever. It could be a transformational moment for him to save money, cure people of Alzheimer's, and let people in need keep Medicaid.
 
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essentialsaltes

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The National Weather Service warned of “life-threatening flooding” along the river in a series of alerts in the early morning hours. But questions remain about how many people they reached, whether critical vacancies at the forecast offices could have affected warning dissemination, and if so-called warning fatigue had been growing among residents in a region described as one of the most dangerous in the country for flash flooding.

The two Texas NWS offices most closely involved in forecasting and warning about the flooding on the Guadalupe River — Austin-San Antonio and San Angelo — are missing some key staff members, but still issued a slew of watches and warnings about the flood danger.

The question is whether the warnings reached who they needed to reach.

Tom Fahy, the legislative director for the NWS employees’ union, told CNN that while he believes the offices had “adequate staffing and resources,” the Austin-San Antonio office is missing a warning coordination meteorologist — a role that serves as a crucial, direct link between forecasters and emergency managers.

The first warning for “life-threatening flash flooding” for Kerrville came at 1:14 a.m., and was marked specifically to trigger the Emergency Alert System. It would have sounded the alarm on cell phones in the warned area, assuming those phones had service, and their users hadn’t turned off EAS weather alerts.

The NOAA official defended the National Weather Service forecasts, and said the disaster ultimately resulted from too much rain in too short of time in one of the most vulnerable spots in the country for flash flooding, and in the overnight hours — the worst time of day to get warnings to people in harm’s way.

The [Trump 2026 request] budget seeks to eliminate all of NOAA’s weather and climate research labs along with institutes jointly run with universities around the country. The entire research division of NOAA would be eliminated under the proposal, which is subject to congressional approval.

One of the NOAA labs slated to be shut down is the National Severe Storms Lab in Norman, Oklahoma, which works to improve flash flood forecasting among other hazards from severe thunderstorms.
 
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Landon Caeli

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I ALWAYS carry my Bat Fludd Repellant EVERYWHERE I go (even to the toilet). Frankly anyone who doesn't deserves everything they get get.
Love your custom title! :oldthumbsup:
 
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JosephZ

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See the staffing levels had nothing to do with this.
Except warnings were sent.
If you would have read beyond the first paragraph of the article I quoted earlier in the tread, you would have read that staff shortages at the NWS and the inability to coordinate with local officials in a timely manner were an issue.

As Floods Hit, Key Roles Were Vacant at Weather Service Offices in Texas

The staffing shortages suggested a separate problem, — the loss of experienced people who would typically have helped communicate with local authorities in the hours after flash flood warnings were issued overnight.

The National Weather Service’s San Angelo office, which is responsible for some of the areas hit hardest by Friday’s flooding, was missing a senior hydrologist, staff forecaster and meteorologist in charge...

The Weather Service’s nearby San Antonio office, which covers other areas hit by the floods, also had significant vacancies, including a warning coordination meteorologist and science officer... Staff members in those positions are meant to work with local emergency managers to plan for floods, including when and how to warn local residents and help them evacuate.

Typically,
[John Sokich] said, the Weather Service will send an official to meet regularly with local emergency managers for what are called “tabletop operations” — planning ahead of time for what to do in case of a flash flood or other major weather disaster.

But the Trump administration’s pursuit of fewer staff members means remaining employees have less time to spend coordinating with local officials, he said.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I'm running out of popcorn. Man, this is the most entertaining thread ever. At least since that time I tried to blame the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius on Joe Biden, and complained that the Romans should have had guns.
I miss popcorn, microwave went nuclear, had to throw it out.

Reminds me of how the reformation was caused by the anathemas of the Nicene creed.

Anyway, enough joking, praying for the flood victims.
 
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iluvatar5150

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For the campers. Unless the camps were committed by ideology to ludditeism some member of staff would have had a cell phone or barring that weather radio especially given the flood prone location.
I wouldn’t count on that. Having a weather radio and a contingency plan to respond to serious incoming weather has less, IMO, to do with being luddites and more to do with being responsible administrative and, in this case, wilderness-oriented professionals. I could see a modest Christian camp going either way on this.

I come from an event production background and there have been numerous fatal incidents stemming from poor disaster preparedness by officials who ought to have known better and whom one would expect to be more prepared than the folks running a church camp.
 
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ozso

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If you would have read beyond the first paragraph of the article I quoted earlier in the tread, you would have read that staff shortages at the NWS and the inability to coordinate with local officials in a timely manner were an issue.
That acritical is about speculation and it's vague ie "Texas officials".
 
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ozso

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I wouldn’t count on that. Having a weather radio and a contingency plan to respond to serious incoming weather has less, IMO, to do with being luddites and more to do with being responsible administrative and, in this case, wilderness-oriented professionals. I could see a modest Christian camp going either way on this.

I come from an event production background and there have been numerous fatal incidents stemming from poor disaster preparedness by officials who ought to have known better and whom one would expect to be more prepared than the folks running a church camp.
Based on satellite view, the summer camp is a group of bungalows and other buildings alongside a highway. There are even tennis courts. It's the kind of place where 99.9% of the time nothing ever happens and usually the biggest threat from nature is mosquitos.
 
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iluvatar5150

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It's the kind of place where 99.9% of the time nothing ever happens and usually the biggest threat from nature is mosquitos.
That’s true of nearly every place. That doesn’t absolve the folks in charge of their responsibilities to foresee concerns and make preparations for them.
 
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