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SCOTUS Limits Federal Judges’ Ability to Block Executive Actions Nationwide

BCP1928

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Also, slaves didnt enter the country illegally. They were brought here against their will, and we owed them the right to be citizens. People coming here illegally, as opposed to doing it the legal way, shouldn’t be granted anything except a free ride home.
The babies the slaves bore once they were here were not brought from Africa. The parents of the baby are not being offered anything. It's the baby that is being given citizenship.I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp. The 14th Amendment ONLY APPLIES TO THE BABY. The legal status of the parents is not changed by it and is a separate question altogether.
 
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A New Dawn

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The babies the slaves bore once they were here were not brought from Africa. The parents of the baby are not being offered anything. It's the baby that is being given citizenship.I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp. The 14th Amendment ONLY APPLIES TO THE BABY. The legal status of the parents is not changed by it and is a separate question altogether.
EVERYONE knows this. You don’t have to repeat it incessantly. My comment was ABOUT the parent/s.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Also, slaves didnt enter the country illegally. They were brought here against their will,
Just like a baby. Babies born in the US didn’t come across the border illegally.
and we owed them the right to be citizens.
Why? Would we owe them citizenship when they were trafficked over here by slavers?
People coming here illegally, as opposed to doing it the legal way, shouldn’t be granted anything except a free ride home.
Babies born in the US didn’t come here illegally. They were born here. That’s what makes them citizens. Their parent’s status is another topic entirely.
 
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A New Dawn

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Just like a baby. Babies born in the US didn’t come across the border illegally.

Why? Would we owe them citizenship when they were trafficked over here by slavers?

Babies born in the US didn’t come here illegally. They were born here. That’s what makes them citizens. Their parent’s status is another topic entirely.
I did address this in another post. Go read it there.
 
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BCP1928

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EVERYONE knows this. You don’t have to repeat it incessantly. My comment was ABOUT the parent/s.
Then you should start a new thread about it. This is a thread about who has a right to interpret the 14th amendment, which is just about the babies themselves.
 
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RDKirk

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Well, help me out then. As far as I know a birthright baby becoming a citizen by birth does not change the citizenship status of its parents. It seems to have nothing do do with the citizenship status of the parents, any more than your birth changed the citizenship status of your parents.
What does the Supreme Court know that I don't?
The Supreme Court did not rule on birthright citizenship.

They didn't even reverse the lower court's injunction...which also was not a ruling on birthright citizenship.

There has not yet been any court ruling on birthright citizenship.
 
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Pommer

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Slavery is something else entirely. If you are stolen from one country and forcibly taken to another, I have no issues with your children being a citizen. Most slaves had no way to get home.
Given that slaves weren’t “imported” since 1808, “home” was always the USA/CSA/USA.

We are talking about people who come here on their own voluntarily.
I thought we were talking about children born while their parents were here, voluntarily.
 
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RDKirk

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What should happen is that the parents should be sent home. If they have someone to leave the child with till they return legally they can do that. If they want to keep the child with them, they can take the child back to their country with them and the child is free to return when the parents return legally.
In the past, the child born in the US was sent with the parents back to the parents' home nation. When the child turned 18, the US gave that person the right to renounce the citizenship of the parents, accept US citizenship, and enter the company.

That's how it worked in the past.
 
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BCP1928

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In the past, the child born in the US was sent with the parents back to the parents' home nation. When the child turned 18, the US gave that person the right to renounce the citizenship of the parents, accept US citizenship, and enter the company.

That's how it worked in the past.
Down along the border in New Mexico where I used to live there are two little towns. On the Mexican side there is Puerto Palomas and on the US side is Columbus, with desert all around them For many years there was a maternity clinic in Columbus but none in Puerto Palomas, so women would cross the border to have their babies, birthright citizens, then they would go home. As a consequence, every morning the Luna County school bus stops at the border gate and US citizen kids walk through and get on the bus to school and they are dropped off again to go home to Mexico in the afternoon. That's how it works there. Not for much longer, though. The maternity clinic in Columbus has closed and now there is one in Puerto Palomas. Americans in the region cross the border now for many of their medical needs anyway.
 
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A New Dawn

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Then you should start a new thread about it. This is a thread about who has a right to interpret the 14th amendment, which is just about the babies themselves.
We don’t need the Supreme Court to make a decision on the babies. They can rule on the parents. It’s the parents right/responsibility to take their child or find someone to leave them with to care for them till they come back legally.
 
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A New Dawn

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In the past, the child born in the US was sent with the parents back to the parents' home nation. When the child turned 18, the US gave that person the right to renounce the citizenship of the parents, accept US citizenship, and enter the company.

That's how it worked in the past.
That can be how it works now. But if there is a family member to care for the child here, now, I’m fine with the child staying.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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We don’t need the Supreme Court to make a decision on the babies. They can rule on the parents. It’s the parents right/responsibility to take their child or find someone to leave them with to care for them till they come back legally.
What are you talking about? There’s nothing in the text about the parents. They can’t rule on things not included in the law.
 
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BCP1928

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What are you talking about? There’s nothing in the text about the parents. They can’t rule on things not included in the law.
The interesting thing is, that the 14th amendment is the only place in the Constitution where citizenship is actually defined. It is defined as "all persons born or naturalized" which means that if the 14th Amendment is set aside then little Conservative babies born here won't be citizens, either. ;)
 
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A New Dawn

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What are you talking about? There’s nothing in the text about the parents. They can’t rule on things not included in the law.
Deported. I’m talking about the parents being deported back to their home country. No Supreme Court case needed. Just deport the parents and let THEM decide on the child’s outcome.
 
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JSRG

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Also, slaves didnt enter the country illegally. They were brought here against their will, and we owed them the right to be citizens. People coming here illegally, as opposed to doing it the legal way, shouldn’t be granted anything except a free ride home.
Actually, various slaves did enter the country illegally. In 1808, Congress passed a law banning the importation of slaves (slavery was still legal, you just couldn't bring them into the country anymore). However, various slave traders continued their business, even though it was illegal. And, thus, all slaves that were brought to the US after that point were brought here illegally, although it was obviously against their will.
 
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JSRG

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The court had no power to decide that, let alone you...LOL

Courts absolutely have the power to decide how to interpret the Constitution. That's part of the reason they're there.

What was going on in this specific case was not the question of whether the courts could interpret the Constitution to decide who the Citizenship Clause applied to. No one disputed they could. What was disputed was whether the courts could also extend that judgment to people who were not specific party to the lawsuit.

It was about whose jurisdiction they were subject to. The mother is still under the jurisdiction of her own country. The baby, is under the same.

I do not think the baby is under the jurisdiction of the home country, as the home country has no actual power over them at that time, and will continue to not have any power until such time as they actually return to that country. If they decide to never return to their parents' home country, that country has no power over them.

Regardless, even if we suppose the home country has jurisdiction over them, that doesn't mean the United States doesn't. The Constitution doesn't say "subject to the exclusive jurisdiction" of the United States, after all. A child of immigrants born in the US is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States as shown by the simple fact they are subject to the laws of it and can be prosecuted for breaking them. The purpose of that phrase, "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", was to exclude foreign diplomats and their families (diplomatic immunity means they are not subject to US laws) or the Indian tribes (those living on reservations were exempt from US law).

It was done to deal with slavery. Illegals are not under the jurisdiction of our government because they step foot on our land. They continue a citizen and under the jurisdiction of their country of origin. This will be decided in due time. By the Supreme court.
See in your article, it also had a purpose concerning slavery.
Quote
along with the emergence of successful wars of independence movements that widened the definition and granting of citizenship, as a prerequisite to the abolishment of slavery since the 19th century.[5]
The primary purpose of the Citizenship Clause was to grant citizenship to the freed slaves. Primary purpose. If that was its sole purpose, it would've just said "all those of African descent held in a former state of servitude as of the passing of this amendment are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States" and that would be the end of it. They were going for more than just the slaves with it.
 
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BCP1928

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Offering birthright citizenship is something an American can be proud of, something that sets America above other countries. "If you were born here then you are one of us." That is really making America great.
 
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RDKirk

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Courts absolutely have the power to decide how to interpret the Constitution. That's part of the reason they're there.

Regardless, even if we suppose the home country has jurisdiction over them, that doesn't mean the United States doesn't. The Constitution doesn't say "subject to the exclusive jurisdiction" of the United States, after all. A child of immigrants born in the US is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States as shown by the simple fact they are subject to the laws of it and can be prosecuted for breaking them. The purpose of that phrase, "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", was to exclude foreign diplomats and their families (diplomatic immunity means they are not subject to US laws) or the Indian tribes (those living on reservations were exempt from US law).
The US has never permitted the exercise of foreign jurisdiction upon foreign nationals within the US except for diplomats. That being the case, the exclusivity of US jurisdiction upon people within its borders, legally or not, has long been a matter of law.
The primary purposeof the Citizenship Clause was to grant citizenship to the freed slaves. Primary purpose. If that was its sole purpose, it would've just said "all those of African descent held in a former state of servitude as of the passing of this amendment are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States" and that would be the end of it. They were going for more than just the slaves with it.
I don't think we can say they were necessarily "going for more than that" because they didn't say more than that. Given the historical context, they may well have not seen a need to be explicit about exclusivity: "What else would we be talking about in this time and this place?"
 
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RDKirk

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Offering birthright citizenship is something an American can be proud of, something that sets America above other countries. "If you were born here then you are one of us." That is really making America great.
That's very much a matter of point of view. For instance, all the countries that don't offer birthright citizenship, by their point of view, do not consider it something to be proud of.
 
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JSRG

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The interesting thing is, that the 14th amendment is the only place in the Constitution where citizenship is actually defined. It is defined as "all persons born or naturalized" which means that if the 14th Amendment is set aside then little Conservative babies born here won't be citizens, either. ;)

The 14th Amendment gives no definition of citizenship. Perhaps you mean it's the only place that mentions people gaining citizenship, but that is not quite true either; Article I gives congress power "to establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization" (that is, of gaining citizenship after birth). Obviously, one can gain citizenship via naturalization independent of the 14th Amendment. The only thing the 14th Amendment does in regards to a naturalized citizen is that it makes them an automatic citizen of the state they live in as well. There was previously more of a distinction between being a state citizen and being a United States citizen prior, which the 14th Amendment largely removed.

Still, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. No one has claimed that the 14th Amendment, or even just the Citizenship Clause, should be "set aside". Some people claim (incorrectly, in my view) that it doesn't give birthright citizenship to children of temporary or illegal immigrants, but that's not setting it aside entirely, but restricting it. There are some who admit it grants birthright citizenship to them and say it should be changed, but they're not saying to get rid of the thing entirely, just restrict it.

That said, if the entire Fourteenth Amendment were repealed, then... in regards to birthright citizenship, nothing would change, because the US later put the Citizenship Clause into the law itself, as seen in 8 U.S. Code § 1401(a):

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;


It's redundant given the Fourteenth Amendment, but as it's part of an enumeration of categories of who gains citizenship at birth, it makes some sense to put it into law.

Or perhaps the claim would be that if both of these were withdrawn, no one would gain citizenship at birth. Prior to the 14th Amendment, I think they more or less just went along with what the English common law said (which gave citizenship to people born in the US even if their parents were not citizens), but I'm not sure if it was actually codified at the time. But while a potentially interesting thought exercise, it isn't what anyone is asking for anyway.
 
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