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SCOTUS Limits Federal Judges’ Ability to Block Executive Actions Nationwide

ViaCrucis

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Would someone enlighten me as to why this is a good thing, and not a bad thing? I understand why Trump supporters would be happy about this in the short term, but surely the long term ramifications of this will mean eventually there's going to be cases where someone you don't like is in the WH, and the Judicial Branch is going to be extremely weakened now in comparison to the Executive.

Am I missing something?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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JSRG

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Would someone enlighten me as to why this is a good thing, and not a bad thing? I understand why Trump supporters would be happy about this in the short term, but surely the long term ramifications of this will mean eventually there's going to be cases where someone you don't like is in the WH, and the Judicial Branch is going to be extremely weakened now in comparison to the Executive.

Am I missing something?

-CryptoLutheran
Well, if we ignore the legal questions (from my admittedly cursory knowledge of it, it looks to me like legally speaking the decision was correctly) and look at it just from a practical view, it's because it halts the abuse of universal injunctions.

So, let's go through things. If someone sues over a policy or law or whatever to try to stop it because they think it's illegal or unconstitutional, the actual process of the lawsuit takes a while. So they can ask for a preliminary injunction, which says that it can't be put into effect during that time period. Normally, injunctions just bind the particular parties (while providing some degree of precedence for future people who might sue over the subject), but judges--especially more recently--can issue what's called a universal injunction, which says the law/policy/whatever can't be enforced against anyone. Universal injunctions were once very rare (they were originally nonexistent; I don't think there was a single one prior to the 20th century, and even then they were quite rare), but have become increasingly common more recently, particularly over the last decade or two.

There are, policy-wise, some merits to them, but since we're talking about the demerits, the most obvious demerit is what is called forum shopping or judge shopping. Basically, if you don't like a law/policy/whatever, it's possible to launch the lawsuit in areas where you are very likely to get a sympathetic judge. Ordinarily this wouldn't be that big of a deal, because even if they rule unfairly that can possibly be fixed on appeal, but those are exactly the judges most likely to issue a universal injunction. Which means, effectively, one district judge (and a selectively picked one at that) is able to declare a law invalid for the entire country. A case can go up in front of 100 different district judges, and 99 can say there's no need for an injunction... but if the one guy who says yes decides to issue a universal injunction, then wham! They get to overrule every single one of those other judges. And until the case gets decided, or a higher court decides to lift the injunction, that puts the whole thing on pause despite them being the only one to rule that way.

And it should be noted that when Biden was president and the Democrats controlled congress, conservatives absolutely used this trick. Find a policy you don't like, have someone file where it's very likely to be heard by someone like Matthew Kacsmaryk, and you've got a good chance of putting it on hold for the whole country. And it should be noted that liberals were complaining about it then. See, for example, this article from The Atlantic (a liberal source) complaining about it in 2023:

And here's an article from Vox (again, a liberal source) discussing the decision after it was handed down, and pointing out the justices had a point here:

During the Biden administration, MAGA-aligned federal judges in Texas routinely handed down nationwide injunctions on highly dubious grounds. Indeed, this practice so frustrated Biden’s Justice Department that, even after Trump won the 2024 election, Biden’s solicitor general, Elizabeth Prelogar, filed a brief asking the justices to limit their use.

The best argument against these broad orders is that they place too much power in individual judges, and in plaintiffs who can often shape which judge hears their case. As Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote in a 2020 opinion, “there are currently more than 1,000 active and senior district court judges.”In a world with nationwide injunctions, plaintiffs can shop around for the one judge in America who is most likely to be sympathetic to their cause, and potentially secure a court order that no other judge would hand down.


And note that, aside from Vox being a liberal source, the specific author (Ian Milhiser) is hardly any fan of Trump or any of the Republican-appointed justices; at the time of me writing this, six of the seven last articles he wrote on the site are him complaining about how the decisions said justices made were bad ones (the remaining one is the above).

Granted, I doubt most of the Trump supporters cheering on this decision care much about the underlying legal issues, or are thinking too much about how this could end up hurting them during the next Democratic presidency (one is reminded of all the Democrats who were calling for the filibuster to be abolished towards the end of Biden's term--if they had gotten their wish, then they'd now be completely at the mercy of the Republican-controlled House, Senate, and Presidency, whereas with the filibuster in place, Republicans are more limited). Still, as a legal matter the argument against them is reasonable, and as a more practical matter there were serious issues with the way universal injunctions were being issued.
 
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A2SG

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But now you are making a considerably different claim than the one you were making. Your complaint was that the system where a lower court could say the President couldn't do something, but then the Supreme Court (which could have people appointed by the President) could say the President could do it, was somehow dictator like.
No, that is not what I said. Trump is the one trying to act like a dictator, it's the SCOTUS, specifically Thomas, Gorsuch and Alito primarily, who are aiding him.

As I noted, that is literally the system that has been around since the Constitution was ratified, and it is not even unique to the United States, given various other democracies have this sort of system.
I'm aware.

Now you are essentially changing the subject to something different, and one that ironically is not even compatible with your prior complaint. Before, you were complaining about the fact the Supreme Court could overturn a lower court and say the President could do something even if that lower court said he couldn't.
I did not complain about that. I stated that I am fully aware that the SCOTUS is the final word on constitutional issues. I also tried to be clear that I was offering my personal opinion that I disagree with the SCOTUS rulings which aid Trump in his apparent desire to act in a dictatorial manner.

I'll also grant that my opinion, and five bucks, will get you a latte at Starbucks.

Now, however, your complaint is to apparently refer to Abrego Garcia... a time when the Supreme Court said the President couldn't have deported him the way he did and he should try to get him back. So it appears the example of the Supreme Court saying the President could do something a lower court said he couldn't is to point to the Supreme Court saying he couldn't do something, namely deport Abrego Garcia to the country he was deported to? Even setting that aside, Trump did (after a bunch of hemming and hawing) get him back anyway, so he ultimately didn't refuse.
That Trump eventually followed the law doesn't change the fact that he actively denied due process for Garcia to begin with, which is part of the reason I claim he's trying to act as a dictator would. It seems he was prevented from becoming a full dictator by the checks and balances our government relies on to curb such ambitions. I applaud them, and I will even applaud the SCOTUS in upholding the Constitution in this instance, at least.

But my main point has always been that Trump is trying his level best to act as a dictator would, and the Courts should be a bulwark to that ambition, not an ally. If that point wasn't clear to you at the outset, I apologize.

-- A2SG, do my best to be clear, but pobody's nerfect.....
 
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probinson

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Exactly. Trump says he wants to do something, one court rules that the Constitution doesn't allow it, and Trump's handpicked SCOTUS says yes, he can do it anyway.

Trump didn't hand-pick every justice on the Court.

Just so I'm clear on your thought process, if SCOTUS agrees with Trump, it's because he "handpicked" the justices, but if SCOTUS disagrees with Trump, it's because he didn't handpick every justice.

Do I have that right?
 
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A2SG

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Just so I'm clear on your thought process, if SCOTUS agrees with Trump, it's because he "handpicked" the justices, but if SCOTUS disagrees with Trump, it's because he didn't handpick every justice.

Do I have that right?
I'll make it clearer.

There are a number of justices on the Supreme Court who seem to be aiding Trump in his goal of weilding dictator like power. Sometimes, enough of the other justices side with them, occasionally they don't.

-- A2SG, is that better?
 
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Always in His Presence

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Would someone enlighten me as to why this is a good thing, and not a bad thing? I understand why Trump supporters would be happy about this in the short term, but surely the long term ramifications of this will mean eventually there's going to be cases where someone you don't like is in the WH, and the Judicial Branch is going to be extremely weakened now in comparison to the Executive.

Am I missing something?

-CryptoLutheran
It is called checks and balances and is a very good thing woven into our government.. This recent ruling prevents Judges from judicial over reach - they to not have jurisdiction over the entire US and the court re-iterated it.
I'll make it clearer.

There are a number of justices on the Supreme Court who seem to be aiding Trump in his goal of weilding dictator like power. Sometimes, enough of the other justices side with them, occasionally they don't.

-- A2SG, is that better?
No - it is not better, because it is not true - the courts have ruled against Trump a number of times - There no dictatorship forming except in some fertile imaginations

️ Major Supreme Court Losses for Trump


  • DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals)
    In 2020, the Court ruled 5–4 that the Trump administration’s attempt to end DACA was “arbitrary and capricious” under the Administrative Procedure Act. This was a major setback for Trump’s immigration agenda.
  • Census Citizenship Question
    Also in 2019, the Court blocked the administration from adding a citizenship question to the 2020 Census, citing that the rationale provided was contrived and not credible.
  • Trump v. Vance (2020)
    The Court ruled 7–2 that the President is not immune from a state criminal subpoena, allowing the Manhattan District Attorney to obtain Trump’s tax records.
  • Trump v. Mazars (2020)
    In a related case, the Court sent congressional subpoenas for Trump’s financial records back to lower courts for further review, rejecting Trump’s blanket immunity claims.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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It is called checks and balances and is a very good thing woven into our government.. This recent ruling prevents Judges from judicial over reach - they to not have jurisdiction over the entire US and the court re-iterated it.
What about the check on the Executive branch that was neutered by this ruling?
 
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ViaCrucis

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It is called checks and balances and is a very good thing woven into our government.. This recent ruling prevents Judges from judicial over reach - they to not have jurisdiction over the entire US and the court re-iterated it.

This looks to me like it's the opposite of checks and balances--this reduces the Judicial of its powers to literally check and balance the Executive. How does this not result in Executive overreach? If the courts cannot make national injunctions against unilateral executive actions by the president, this grants the president far-reaching unilateral executive power. Am I wrong?

The only way this can look like a good thing is if one is being short-sighted and looking at this from a purely partisan perspective: Sure, if you like what Trump is doing, then this is good; but what happens once someone is occupying the White House that you don't like, would you be just as happy about this decision then? Would you still consider this a victory for checks and balances--or would you consider this a giving the Executive too much power and crippling the Judicial of its powers?

I still remember when people complained that Obama signed too many executive orders, and the outcry that he had too much executive power. It just seems strange to me, with that in mind, that 15 years ago the outrage was a too powerful Executive, and now the complaint is the Judicial is getting in the way of a powerful Executive.

Again, what--if anything--am I missing here?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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durangodawood

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This looks to me like it's the opposite of checks and balances--this reduces the Judicial of its powers to literally check and balance the Executive. How does this not result in Executive overreach? If the courts cannot make national injunctions against unilateral executive actions by the president, this grants the president far-reaching unilateral executive power. Am I wrong?

The only way this can look like a good thing is if one is being short-sighted and looking at this from a purely partisan perspective: Sure, if you like what Trump is doing, then this is good; but what happens once someone is occupying the White House that you don't like, would you be just as happy about this decision then? Would you still consider this a victory for checks and balances--or would you consider this a giving the Executive too much power and crippling the Judicial of its powers?

I still remember when people complained that Obama signed too many executive orders, and the outcry that he had too much executive power. It just seems strange to me, with that in mind, that 15 years ago the outrage was a too powerful Executive, and now the complaint is the Judicial is getting in the way of a powerful Executive.

Again, what--if anything--am I missing here?

-CryptoLutheran
Now a president actually can come for your guns!
 
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Always in His Presence

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What about the check on the Executive branch that was neutered by this ruling?
They agreed with the legal argument of the executive branch. That is checks and balances in action. Other times as demonstrated they ruled against the executive branches. That is checks and balances also
This looks to me like it's the opposite of checks and balances--this reduces the Judicial of its powers to literally check and balance the Executive. How does this not result in Executive overreach? If the courts cannot make national injunctions against unilateral executive actions by the president, this grants the president far-reaching unilateral executive power. Am I wrong?

The only way this can look like a good thing is if one is being short-sighted and looking at this from a purely partisan perspective: Sure, if you like what Trump is doing, then this is good; but what happens once someone is occupying the White House that you don't like, would you be just as happy about this decision then? Would you still consider this a victory for checks and balances--or would you consider this a giving the Executive too much power and crippling the Judicial of its powers?

I still remember when people complained that Obama signed too many executive orders, and the outcry that he had too much executive power. It just seems strange to me, with that in mind, that 15 years ago the outrage was a too powerful Executive, and now the complaint is the Judicial is getting in the way of a powerful Executive.

Again, what--if anything--am I missing here?

-CryptoLutheran
No. The High court has not limited lower courts power. The lower courts went outside the power they had and the high court corrected them

Checks and balances.
Now a president actually can come for your guns!
Said no one in this administration ever.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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RocksInMyHead

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They agreed with the legal argument of the executive branch. That is checks and balances in action. Other times as demonstrated they ruled against the executive branches. That is checks and balances also
I understand that. I'm just wondering why you're so pleased with it. I would think that most Americans would want robust checks on executive powers.
 
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Always in His Presence

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They didn't limit the ability of judges to block executive actions for just the Trump
So….. that is how the systems work.
I understand that. I'm just wondering why you're so pleased with it. I would think that most Americans would want robust checks on executive powers.
Not solely checks - but checks and balance
Not solely the executive branch but lower courts also and Legislative branch also

The multiple times the SCOTUS checked the power of the executive branch I didn’t argue because that is our system. I was pleased with it. Just like the latest

They bring balance, not automatically opposition.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Thread title...... "executive actions". Why would that only apply to this administration?
You only quoted two of ten words in the title.

Read the op it was very specific
 
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durangodawood

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rjs330

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This looks to me like it's the opposite of checks and balances--this reduces the Judicial of its powers to literally check and balance the Executive. How does this not result in Executive overreach? If the courts cannot make national injunctions against unilateral executive actions by the president, this grants the president far-reaching unilateral executive power. Am I wrong?

The only way this can look like a good thing is if one is being short-sighted and looking at this from a purely partisan perspective: Sure, if you like what Trump is doing, then this is good; but what happens once someone is occupying the White House that you don't like, would you be just as happy about this decision then? Would you still consider this a victory for checks and balances--or would you consider this a giving the Executive too much power and crippling the Judicial of its powers?

I still remember when people complained that Obama signed too many executive orders, and the outcry that he had too much executive power. It just seems strange to me, with that in mind, that 15 years ago the outrage was a too powerful Executive, and now the complaint is the Judicial is getting in the way of a powerful Executive.

Again, what--if anything--am I missing here?

-CryptoLutheran

You are missing the authority part. Up until now the courts ruled with impunity and nationwide authority, no matter where they were. And just because they did it in the past, obviously does not mean that they should continue to do it. Thats how the Supreme Court works. They look at everything that has been done and is being done and determines if it has been done correctly. They looked at it this situation brought before them.and determined that courts did not have the authority to do what they were doing.

Checks and balances are based on authority. Who has the authority and what authority do they actually have constitutionally.

Yes rhe president does have authority over the executive branch. That is constitutional. And his actions affect the entire nation because he is a national authority and its granted to him by the constitution. However the courts in Washington have not been given authority over all the united states and all governemnt actions. They may look at a particular case in front of them and rule on that.

The check happens when plaintiffs file a class action suit from all over the US. And it finally makes its way to SCOTUS.

How I personally feel about who's in power is irrelevant. Sure, Id be happy with rulings in my favor. Just as you are. But my happiness is irrelevant. In the future if we decide to sue the Executive then I expect a class action suit. Because a judge in Texas should be able to tell the president they cant run the executive how he wants to. If enough people believe they have been harmed by this then they can file a class action suit.
 
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ralliann

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I understand that. I'm just wondering why you're so pleased with it. I would think that most Americans would want robust checks on executive powers.
That is what the supreme court did, to the lower courts. They do not have power to make nationwide rulings like that! It is the same thing they tried to do with taking the president off of the ballots. They had no power to do that in a FEDERAL ELECTION.
 
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