US citizen detained in Alabama by immigration officials who dismissed his REAL ID as fake

NxNW said:

Rather than spend my morning linking to other threads with examples of IDs being confiscated or dismissed as fake, I'll provide external links.

Note that if agents are permitted to simply ignore a genuine ID, then anyone anywhere can be arrested for any reason.

US Citizen handcuffed and told his Real Id was fake.

ID confiscated or destroyed. – BP agents verbally abused Jaime [name changed to protect privacy], saying that Venezuelans have no right to be in the US and that the problems in Venezuela are not their problem. A BP agent confiscated his cellphone, earbuds, money, and Venezuelan ID. He took the ID and cut it in half with scissors in front of Jaime.

… We interviewed 16 migrants who arrived in New York by bus from Texas. All but four said they had important documents taken and not returned. And volunteers, case workers, and lawyers who work with the migrants also told us the problem is widespread.

Beberlyn, 33, a migrant from Venezuela who crossed the U.S.-Mexico border earlier this year, said Border Patrol agents kept several of her family’s personal documents, including their passports, Venezuelan identification cards, her children’s birth certificates and her husband’s drivers license.

…Maria, another Venezuelan migrant living in a New York City shelter with her family, said Border Patrol agents failed to return her children’s birth certificates and vaccine records, as well as her and her husband’s passports and identification cards. She asked for her surname to be omitted, citing her pending case.

In Border Patrol’s Rio Grande Valley Sector, “The National Butterfly Center (located in Mission, Texas) has found photo identification, birth certificates, and bank account information at its facility or on the perimeter, where migrants are often apprehended. The organization has collected at least ten sets of identification documents in the last year alone. Other advocates who operate in the Rio Grande Valley Sector report finding discarded police reports, medical records, passports, immigration papers, and other documents that could be vital to substantiating an asylum claim.”

When BP apprehended Samuel [name changed to protect privacy], agents confiscated all his belongings. They took his phone and removed the SIM card and pocketed it, took his wallet that had $300 in it and removed the credit cards and pocketed them as well. They ripped up his birth certificate in front of him. The agents were speaking in English amongst themselves, so he couldn’t understand what they were saying. He was only able to save his Mexican ID because he had previously hid it in his shoe.

BP apprehend Brayan [name changed to protect privacy] and confiscated all his personal belongings- $1,800 pesos ($89 USD), a chain with a diamond ring that his father had given to him, a Bible, the keys to his home, his cell phone with all of his contacts, his Mexican IDs, and birth certificate.


When there is no accountability, abuse is widespread.

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RDKirk said:

Real ID does not indicate citizenship anyway...and I've seen some that were acquired with faked credentials myself.

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rambot said:

Ok. But there are examples of virtually every type of document that has been aquired with faked credentials.

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RDKirk said:

Again, RealID doesn't prove citizenship anyway.

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rambot said:

But doesn't it prove that you are LEGALLY permitted to be in the country?

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rambot said:

But doesn't it prove that you are LEGALLY permitted to be in the country?

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rjs330 said:

No ID that you carry proves that. Any ID can be fake.

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rjs330 said:

Sometimes it takes a bit of time to sort it out. And in the case of real ID it doesn't prove citizenship.

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rambot said:

1) Well wait. How can YOU prove that you're American then?

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RDKirk said:

Real ID does not indicate citizenship anyway...and I've seen some that were acquired with faked credentials myself.

I very explicitly said in my discourse "passport" and "passport card." Now you're talking about Real ID...you've moved the goal post.

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rambot said:

1) Well wait. How can YOU prove that you're American then?

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RDKirk said:

The only nationally recognized and available ID that designates citizenship is a passport.

I'm not going to get real excited unless ICE is refusing to accept passports.

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rjs330 said:

I cant. I can show them my citizen ship papers which then can be verified, which might take some time if tgey believe they need to check it out.

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RDKirk said:

The only nationally recognized and available ID that designates citizenship is a passport.

I'm not going to get real excited unless ICE is refusing to accept passports.

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BCP1928 said:

By then you might already be in El Salvador But seriously, it could at least mean a disruption in your life and possibly temporary confinement. "That REAL ID doesn't prove anything and that passport might be fake. Fred, get the zip ties."

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rjs330 said:

Yup could happen. But then I dont work at a place full of illegals and I dont transport them or house them either. So I'm not concerned about it.

This is about finding and deporting ILLEGALS. This is not about nabbing Joe citizen. And if Joe citizen is working with a bunch of illegals then he might have to be briefly inconvenienced if a raid happens.

I'd sure like to know what the alternative is. Just trust whatever they tell you without verification? Thats pretty stupid and a lousy way to do law enforcement.
"Honest officer I didn't rob that bank. I have video of me at home at the time."

"You do? Okay, we'll just let you go. We dont need to check your story. We believe you."

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BCP1928 said:

Now what? A passport? I was at first refused a REAL ID because the State of North Carolina does not regard a valid US passport as proof of citizenship. I.ve been using it as an ID to vote, just out of snark, but every time it produces a muted conference of polling place officials and requires at least one phone call, and that before the proof of citizenship law comes into effect.

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NxNW said:

If a US passport isn't the ultimate ID trump card (if you'll pardon the expression), then nothing is sufficient.

If a US passport isn't good enough 100% of the time, then they can disappear anyone at will, anytime.

I'd say that's a big problem.

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BCP1928 said:

Which is beside the point. We have been sold a form of ID--REAL ID--as a proof of citizenship.

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RDKirk said:

Nope. Show me a link to any official source that says such a thing. Look at your own Real ID. Does it say "citizen" anywhere? And don't non-citizens also have Real ID cards?

When I was active duty, I learned early in the game to stop believing what "they told me" and read the regulations for myself.

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BCP1928 said:

How should I know? I was required to prove my citizenship to get it, and a passport wasn't enough. I had to have an official copy of my birth certificate as well. Sure, all that stuff could be faked, But if the government thinks the ID is worthless, what good is it?

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