How is it that the Catholic Church is evil?

boughtwithaprice said:

To my Protestant brethren.


Here are the Pope’s monthly intentions for the month of June as published by the US conference of Catholic Bishops. These were written by Francis, but as far a I can tell they are not revised by Leo XIV. He will publish his in 2026.

June​

That the world might grow in compassion
Let us pray that each one of us might find consolation in a personal relationship with Jesus, and from his Heart, learn to have compassion on the world.

Click to expand...

good teaching.

As far as I know - no one who opposes some of the doctrines and some of the practices of the catholic church - claims that every thought/every-teaching given by a member of the catholic church has some sort of problem

boughtwithaprice said:

Given that Our Lord said a house divided against itself cannot stand, and Satan does not cast out Satan, what are your best arguments against the Catholic Church

Click to expand...

Here are a few examples of things that are often brought up in that regard.

1. Placing the Bible on the "Index of forbidden books" Index Librorum Prohibitorum - (ended 1966)
2. The inquisition (in general - the idea of using force to gain or maintain membership)
3. Purgatory
4. The doctrine they call "Communion with the dead"
5. The claim that priests have the powers to "confect the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ"
6. The change of the Sabbath
7. The use of images in worship where bowing down before them and promising to serve them -- "them being the being the image represents" -- in the case of non-God persons being venerated in that way - and even God Himself had no image of Himself in the sanctuary He designed for worship so then He would not allow us to do that even with an image of God.
8. The call for the "extermination" of heretics - which lead to violence


(NOTE: - The Catholic Popes ,engaged in opposing rival Catholic Popes, often used some of the same language/terms to describe their papal opponent as was later used by protesting-Catholics against some Popes)
=============================================================================
=== as for a few of the many problems with the inquisition - see the following Catholic document outlining some of those issues --

Pope Clement XIV in 1773 abolished the Jesuit order see Dominus ac Redemptor (1773)

"Therefore we declare that all authority in both spiritual and temporal matters of the Father General, the provincials, the visitors, and of any other superiors of the said Society is permanently discontinued and completely abolished."

In that document Pope Clement XIV lists some of the problems they were having with the Jesuit order, and one of those problems in the list was the poor treatment by Jesuits of people being tormented under the system of "Inquisition" - where the complaints were coming not merely from the victims but also other orders of priests who were not at all happy with what was going on.

============================

FORDHAM – (Jesuit)

"The Fourth Lateran Council, the council that dogmatized transubstantiation, offered indulgences to those who would "exterminate heretics" and participate in a Crusade. Since this council refers to the RCC's influence over the state (John 19:11), it points to the fact that the state was acting at the command of the RCC. The council declared (Internet History Sourcebooks Project
Internet History Sourcebooks Project

CANON 3
“Secular authorities, whatever office they may hold, shall be admonished and induced and if necessary compelled by ecclesiastical censure, that as they wish to be esteemed and numbered among the faithful, so for the defense of the faith they ought publicly to take an oath that they will strive in good faith and to the best of their ability to exterminate in the territories subject to their jurisdiction all heretics pointed out by the Church; so that whenever anyone shall have assumed authority, whether spiritual or temporal, let him be bound to confirm this decree by oath. But if a temporal ruler, after having been requested and admonished by the Church, should neglect to cleanse his territory of this heretical foulness, let him be excommunicated by the metropolitan and the other bishops of the province. If he refuses to make satisfaction within a year, let the matter be made known to the supreme pontiff [the Pope], that he may declare the ruler's vassals absolved from their allegiance and may offer the territory to be ruled lay Catholics, who on the extermination of the heretics may possess it without hindrance and preserve it in the purity of faith; the right, however, of the chief ruler is to be respected as long as he offers no obstacle in this matter and permits freedom of action. The same law is to be observed in regard to those
who have no chief rulers (that is, are independent). Catholics who have girded themselves with the cross for the extermination of the heretics, shall enjoy the indulgences and privileges granted to those who go in defense of the Holy Land."

===============
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p5.htm

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
"I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"

Paragraph 5. The Communion of Saints

958 Communion with the dead. "In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and 'because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins' she offers her suffrages for them."498 Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective.

Note: I do not object to the Pope claiming to be the administrative head of the Catholic Church since many denominations have some person or group or council that leads out in the administrative aspects for the organization.

He also claims to set/define doctrine for the Catholic church along with certain councils - which the Catholic church supports and they have the right to choose it - if they wish to do that sort of thing - they have free will.

The Catholic Document "The Faith Explained" makes a very powerful argument for the change of the Sabbath.
The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues two key points.

1965 -- first published 1959
(from "The Faith Explained" by Leo Trese page 243

boughtwithaprice said:

To my Protestant brethren.


Here are the Pope’s monthly intentions for the month of June as published by the US conference of Catholic Bishops. These were written by Francis, but as far a I can tell they are not revised by Leo XIV. He will publish his in 2026.

June​

That the world might grow in compassion
Let us pray that each one of us might find consolation in a personal relationship with Jesus, and from his Heart, learn to have compassion on the world.



Given that Our Lord said a house divided against itself cannot stand, and Satan does not cast out Satan, what are your best arguments against the Catholic Church? What basis would you use to call the Catholic Church evil, assuming that you do so?

I only want to reach understanding and am not here to insult you or lord myself over you, I only want to know

To my Catholic and Orthodox brethren, I ask that you merely listen. If you wish to post in this thread, please message me directly before you do. This thread is to allow the case to be made and their evidence presented. We can evaluate it when fully heard

Click to expand...

History. The "evil" actions demonstrated in the past continue to haunt the RCC. I can make a list but I don't think it is necessary. A good move to make is to identify, renounce, apologize and add to the Catechism that such things are a sin. Everything else is a matter of doctrinal difference.
Blessings

I think Christianity would be much better off if we could be united by what we share in common rather than being divided by our differences. It is we that divide the body of Christ by calling the other "less than."

It would be helpful for unity that the leaders of any kind within the body followed the instructions of Jesus Christ, that those who serve are the greatest. This would be the best way to get widespread acknowledgement.

The first thought that comes to mind when someone is put on a pedestal is: well, this person has done nothing to benefit me, so we're equals.

seeking.IAM said:

I think Christianity would be much better off if we could be united by what we share in common rather than being divided by our differences. It is we that divide the body of Christ by calling the other "less than."

Click to expand...

There is a pretty high standard that must be adhered to before unity comes to fruition. We can not unite in falsehoods.
Blessings

seeking.IAM said:

I think Christianity would be much better off if we could be united by what we share in common rather than being divided by our differences. It is we that divide the body of Christ by calling the other "less than."

Click to expand...

1. name calling in general is not helpful
2. But there is substance in doctrinal differences as the first century Christian church noticed in the case of the Jewish church and in the case of gnostic Christians, as well as Christians that thought gentiles should be circumcised.
3. Past mistakes cannot be forgotten and yet still "learn the lesson" of what not to do the way it was done in the past. We do not need to carry a grudge or have angst about misdeeds of the past - but we should still learn from them.
4. The Catholic church claims a certain amount of "infallibility" when Popes and Ecumenical councils call for certain things -- "extermination" of heretics for example, or define certain doctrines about Purgatory, Indulgences, Communion with the dead - that is not easily set aside.

Having said that - I gladly participate in ecumenical meetings with Pastors, Catholic Priests and elders of different denominations engaged in coordinating National day of Prayer events (for example). I have no problem having fellowship and being friends with all Christians. And I agree with you that affirming points held in common is preferred.

Picking at each other does nothing to advance the Kingdom.

seeking.IAM said:

Picking at each other does nothing to advance the Kingdom.

Click to expand...

Building amidst those who tear it down does however.

If the foundation is sand, then build on sound foundation.

I accept people have different beliefs and the liberty of choosing what they will. But I’m not required to sanction their choices or walk in unity with things I don’t agree with. Nor do I expect them to change. If a path seems right to you walk it out. If another seems better follow that road. But don’t expect everyone to agree with your choices or accept them. It’s unrealistic.

That holds true in the world and the church. You will never have 100% support or agreement on anything. It’s a reflection of free will. You’ll never get everyone to accept everything under the banner of Christ. You’ll always have dissent on something. If every denomination united today the church would split. There are many who wouldn’t sit under that umbrella.

You’re not going to change their mind and you’ll have to accept it. You don’t have to like it of course. But we’ll never come together.

~bella

boughtwithaprice said:

1) we have a high standard for unity and we cannot unite under falsehood

Everyone agree or does this point need more discussion?

Click to expand...

Agree.

I don't agree with everything about my church so I am certainly not going to agree with everything about others' churches. So, there is that.

Next point.

It's difficult to be united because there are unseen issues, spiritual ones, that cannot be put into words so easily.

Walk into a church that isn't your tradition, and then the above makes more sense.