Utah lawmakers’ own study found gender-affirming care benefits trans youth. Will they lift the treatment ban?

rjs330 · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
First you have to ask the question honestly because a boy never becomes a girl; a boy can become a trans girl, that's all.

Yes they can never be a girl. And thats the problem. If people truly acknowledged that the boy isnt really a girl then there would be no need for these types of conversations. Because we wouldn't be medicalizing them. We wouldn't be allowing them in female spaces, or having pronoun conversations because everyone would accept that they are still a male. And as a male they wouldn't be in female spaces, taking female hormones, getting puberty blockers so they dont go through the natural processes of being a male and would stay out of female sports. They wouldn't be angry over being called sir.

Apparently you have never heard the phrase from them, "Trans women are women."

rjs330 · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
What reality is that? The one I live in views trans as a real thing, not just as a mental illness or wicked pretending.

Thats not reality. Trans is a real thing just like schizophrenia is a real thing or paranoid delusional disorder is a real thing. So yes, its either a mental illness or wicked pretending.

RileyG · Jun 2, 2025

rjs330 said:
Thats not reality. Trans is a real thing just like schizophrenia is a real thing or paranoid delusional disorder is a real thing. So yes, its either a mental illness or wicked pretending.

How is it any different from a white person identifying as an Asian? Or me identifying as 7’ tall.

It’s not.

RileyG · Jun 2, 2025

rjs330 said:
Yes they can never be a girl. And thats the problem. If people truly acknowledged that the boy isnt really a girl then there would be no need for these types of conversations. Because we wouldn't be medicalizing them. We wouldn't be allowing them in female spaces, or having pronoun conversations because everyone would accept that they are still a male. And as a male they wouldn't be in female spaces, taking female hormones, getting puberty blockers so they dont go through the natural processes of being a male and would stay out of female sports. They wouldn't be angry over being called sir.

Apparently you have never heard the phrase from them, "Trans women are women."

Yes. Just let boys and girls go through natural puberty and leave them alone. Most of it will grow out of the phrase anyway.

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

RileyG said:
Yes. A mental illness. That’s my view.

Would you institutionalized all of them?

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

rjs330 said:
Yes they can never be a girl. And thats the problem. If people truly acknowledged that the boy isnt really a girl then there would be no need for these types of conversations. Because we wouldn't be medicalizing them. We wouldn't be allowing them in female spaces, or having pronoun conversations because everyone would accept that they are still a male. And as a male they wouldn't be in female spaces, taking female hormones, getting puberty blockers so they dont go through the natural processes of being a male and would stay out of female sports. They wouldn't be angry over being called sir.

Apparently you have never heard the phrase from them, "Trans women are women."

I've heard the phrase, but "them" is a pretty big number, and I've certainly never heard if personally from a trans person. You seem to be gatteing most of your ideas about what trans is from extremists and politicians, and it's clearly the performative aspects which concern you. So since we've long since agreed arguendo that boys don't belong in girls sports, girls bathrooms and that they shouldn't be given non-reversable medical treatments, what are you arguing about? For putting them back in the closet?

RileyG · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Would you institutionalized all of them?

No. Good grief.

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

RileyG said:
How is it any different from a white person identifying as an Asian? Or me identifying as 7’ tall.

It’s not.

Not quite the same thing as identifying one's inner cognitive and emotional states as those more commonly of the opposite sex.

RileyG · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Not quite the same thing as identifying one's inner cognitive and emotional states as those more commonly of the opposite sex.

Feelings aren’t reality. They’re still their biological sex.

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

RileyG said:
Feelings aren’t reality. They’re still their biological sex.

And everybody knows it. But I'm sorry for you that you have such a low opinion of feelings. My feelings are real to me and I always like to assume that others' feelings are as real to them. I love my children, and so does my wife but I am also aware that she does not feel or express her love in quite the same way I do. If tragedy struck them we would both grieve, but carry our grief and express it differently. But I guess differences like that don't really exist because feelings aren't real.

RileyG · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
And everybody knows it. But I'm sorry for you that you have such a low opinion of feelings. My feelings are real to me and I always like to assume that others' feelings are as real to them. I love my children, and so does my wife but I am also aware that she does not feel or express her love in quite the same way I do. If tragedy struck them we would both grieve, but carry our grief and express it differently. But I guess differences like that don't really exist because feelings aren't real.

Again, I never said differently. Rather, feelings about something someone is not, isn’t reality. A man can say he feels like a woman, and he has every right to live as one, even though it’s mostly costume and make up, but once it violates the rights of others, that’s where it needs to be stopped. That’s all.

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

RileyG said:
Again, I never said differently. Rather, feelings about something someone is not, isn’t reality. A man can say he feels like a woman, and he has every right to live as one, even though it’s mostly costume and make up, but once it violates the rights of others, that’s where it needs to be stopped. That’s all.

Evidently not. So like I have pointed out to rjs and others, we have for all practical purposes given you a pass--at least for argument's sake--on boys in girls sports, boys in girls bathrooms and elimination of medical intervention. If you want to ban them all, go ahead and do it. . Yet you are still arguing with us about it. Why is that?

rjs330 · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
I've heard the phrase, but "them" is a pretty big number, and I've certainly never heard if personally from a trans person. You seem to be gatteing most of your ideas about what trans is from extremists and politicians, and it's clearly the performative aspects which concern you. So since we've long since agreed arguendo that boys don't belong in girls sports, girls bathrooms and that they shouldn't be given non-reversable medical treatments, what are you arguing about? For putting them back in the closet?

I have heard it from a trans person. I have no idea where you are getting your ideas. Yes "them" is a big number.

We've agreed on sports and bathrooms. Treatments? I have a feeling we dont agree on non-reversable treatments. I have a distinct feeling that non-reversable means something different to you than it does to me. Are you referring only to surgeries or all medicalization?

I wonder what you are arguing about for sure. Since we agree on much, why are you still arguing with us about it?

Putting them in the closet? Only if they can't live and let live.

rjs330 · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Not quite the same thing as identifying one's inner cognitive and emotional states as those more commonly of the opposite sex.

We've already established that you dont know what those are.

rjs330 · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
And everybody knows it. But I'm sorry for you that you have such a low opinion of feelings. My feelings are real to me and I always like to assume that others' feelings are as real to them. I love my children, and so does my wife but I am also aware that she does not feel or express her love in quite the same way I do. If tragedy struck them we would both grieve, but carry our grief and express it differently. But I guess differences like that don't really exist because feelings aren't real.

We all know that feelings aren't reality. Because feelings can change moment to moment. But you know this. Mentally ill people have all kinds of feeling that are not based in reality.

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

rjs330 said:
We've already established that you dont know what those are.

Me personally? I only know a few, as I have observed. I wouldn't know how to describe them to you. Maybe you know some yourself. For example, what kind of situations make you angry? Does your wife get angry in the same circumstances? Or different ones?

RileyG · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Evidently not. So like I have pointed out to rjs and others, we have for all practical purposes given you a pass--at least for argument's sake--on boys in girls sports, boys in girls bathrooms and elimination of medical intervention. If you want to ban them all, go ahead and do it. . Yet you are still arguing with us about it. Why is that?

I’m not talking about banning people, it’s about respecting the rights of others.

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

RileyG said:
I’m not talking about banning people, it’s about respecting the rights of others.

So now that we've all but eliminated boys in girls sports and boys in girls bathrooms, wht rights of your are being violated?

rjs330 · Jun 2, 2025

BCP1928 said:
Me personally? I only know a few, as I have observed. I wouldn't know how to describe them to you. Maybe you know some yourself. For example, what kind of situations make you angry? Does your wife get angry in the same circumstances? Or different ones?

We've already discussed this and you said you can't really say about this stuff because these things have a range of values and you can't really assign anything particularly to one sex to determine what they are. Have you changed your mind? Perhaps you'd like to revisit what we've already discussed about this.

BCP1928 said:
I can't help you there. There are cognitive and affective states that are generally found in women and different ones found in men. Of course there is a range of values--it's not either/or--like any other human

Ive already addressed this and you didn't really respond except to wonder why we are arguing.

Suffice it to say, these cognative and emotional things do NOT determine if you are a male or female. Not sure why you want to argue it again.

BCP1928 · Jun 2, 2025

rjs330 said:
We've already discussed this and you said you can't really say about this stuff because these things have a range of values and you can't really assign anything particularly to one sex to determine what they are. Have you changed your mind? Perhaps you'd like to revisit what we've already discussed about this.

I didn't quite say that, I said I wasn't an expert and was replying only on my own experience and what casual reading I have done. If you're all that interested you can find out for yourself.

rjs330 said:
Ive already addressed this and you didn't really respond except to wonder why we are arguing.

Suffice it to say, these cognative and emotional things do NOT determine if you are a male or female. Not sure why you want to argue it again.

Why is it so important to make that point over and over? Biology determines whether you are male or female but not necessarily whether you are masculine of feminine.

Utah lawmakers’ own study found gender-affirming care benefits trans youth. Will they lift the treatment ban?

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