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Only Three Are Tormented Eternally

Hoping2

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Interesting. So they change from children of God to children of the devil?
More concisely, they change from being the children of men to either children of God or of he devil during their lives.
Are people devils? Just exploring where your position is at.
I have never considered that POV...but...I guess you could say the wicked are devils.
So, in your view all temptation is strictly external, never internal via the tempter?
If a man has been reborn of the seed of God, (1 John 3:9), has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), his temptations are from the out side.
The unregenerated have their own lusts to keep leading them astray, plus the devil's continued control over them.
Will try to open this can O worms once you commit to a position. Nothing personal mind you. Just curiosity
No big deal.
Obviously if only the Spirit of God dwells in a child of God, what is there to judge?
God will judge the faithful's use of the gifts He has offered them.
Some do more with God's grace than others.
I will never get the rewards Peter or Paul, or others I have met, will receive.
And what is the action by God of adverse judgments?
I can only imagine it will depend on the severity of the "adversity".
See your own position. Using your measure here there is no judgment to any child of God, which can quite easily be countered by many scriptures for believers and unbelievers alike. God is no respector of persons, believer or unbeliever.


So, an invisible agent talks to you externally, presumably only in and from other people, the tempter?

Interesting. So they change from children of God to children of the devil?

Are people devils? Just exploring where your position is at.

So, in your view all temptation is strictly external, never internal via the tempter? Will try to open this can O worms once you commit to a position. Nothing personal mind you. Just curiosity


Obviously if only the Spirit of God dwells in a child of God, what is there to judge? And what is the action by God of adverse judgments?


See your own position. Using your measure here there is no judgment to any child of God, which can quite easily be countered by many scriptures for believers and unbelievers alike. God is no respector of persons, believer or unbeliever.


So, an invisible agent talks to you externally,
Ugh...that idea makes me shudder.
But if the devil can be described as an invisible agent, his attempted influences aren't out loud...more like subtle, and low keyed.
presumably only in and from other people, the tempter?
Who am I to itemize the devil's ways and means.
By paying attention to God and His word, a more powerful invisible agent gets the victories in my life.
Thanks be to God !!!
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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More concisely, they change from being the children of men to either children of God or of he devil during their lives.
So, the majority of people "turn" into devils? And back again if they're lucky enough to make the right decisions before it's too late?

Pardon me for pressing on the obvious and unorthodox flaws in the narratives.
I have never considered that POV...but...I guess you could say the wicked are devils.

Well, that's why we do these little exercises. Keeps us sharp on hopefully on point, or not.

I do have a great deal of respect for orthodoxy of the early sorts. These matters have been soundly deliberated for a couple thousand years or so with some excellent conclusions. And of course abundant strays of every imaginable sort.

If a man has been reborn of the seed of God, (1 John 3:9), has crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts, (Gal 5:24), his temptations are from the out side.
The unregenerated have their own lusts to keep leading them astray, plus the devil's continued control over them.
I brought this to the forefront early in the conversation.

Jesus did say, without any doubt, that evil lawless thoughts do come from within and defile us ALL.

There were no exceptions granted other than for Himself, God in the flesh.

But you seem to have disregarded that scripture set of Mark 7:21-23 and the equal of it in Matt. altogether and it no longer befits you.

I simply and always wonder what "believers" tell themselves when it does happen and they live in denial of the fact of it when it does happen. I'll can read from Paul's own hand that it happened to Paul post salvation and it happens to "me" beyond any question. Part of the territory of battles. I refuse to let these things turn me into a lying hypocrite and prefer to simply live with the hard truth of it, considering it of the adversary. Evil lawless thoughts do come from within, IF we have been gifted the honesty to say it's a fact.

Sadly many fall on this particular count and I consider it a major train wreck for "faith" to fall to that level, and claim to be "not like the other sinners," whom if you recall, Jesus wasn't too happy with.

Just sayin

Who am I to itemize the devil's ways and means.
No need to itemize. Jesus told us the path of the deceivers arrival. Lawless evil defiling thoughts is how deception starts. The law was always meant to bring for liars and deceivers claiming to be legally compliant. The pews are full of "them." With nary a clue I might add

Fortunately most of orthodoxy maintains the facts of the matters, somewhat. But even they will hesitate to pin the tempter's operations internally, preferring to blame themselves only, thinking it never happens to them. But cough cough
 

CoreyD

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You have not even responded to what I said.

If the second death is a lake of fire, so too, a lake of fire is the second death.
That's like saying, Satan is birds, rather than the birds represent Satan.
Which is really completely wrong, and reveals a lack of understanding, or appreciation for illustrative usage.

All the above will end up in the lake of fire.
The Bible says the woman is destroyed. Revelation 17:16
The people are not said to be destroyed, or cast into the lake of fire.
You are just saying anything aren't you? This appears to be a fun exercise for you, just saying anything, and not addressing anything.

The second death really is a lake of fire.
It will be there for the rebellious forever.

Are not all the allegories men, or groups of men ?
The wicked will suffer forever, whether they are depicted as beasts, or waters, or whatever.
Bye.
You take care.
 
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Hoping2

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So, the majority of people "turn" into devils? And back again if they're lucky enough to make the right decisions before it's too late?
Pardon me for pressing on the obvious and unorthodox flaws in the narratives.
No, as I wrote earlier, children turn from being children of man to either children of the devil or of God.
Well, that's why we do these little exercises. Keeps us sharp on hopefully on point, or not.
I do have a great deal of respect for orthodoxy of the early sorts. These matters have been soundly deliberated for a couple thousand years or so with some excellent conclusions. And of course abundant strays of every imaginable sort.
OK
I brought this to the forefront early in the conversation.
Jesus did say, without any doubt, that evil lawless thoughts do come from within and defile us ALL.
Jesus was also talking to men who were not reborn of God's seed.
Your point only applies to the unregenerated.
Rebirth would not be available to anyone until Jesus had been raised from the dead.
There were no exceptions granted other than for Himself, God in the flesh.
True, at the time it was spoken.
But you seem to have disregarded that scripture set of Mark 7:21-23 and the equal of it in Matt. altogether and it no longer befits you.
See above.
I simply and always wonder what "believers" tell themselves when it does happen and they live in denial of the fact of it when it does happen.
What is ""it" ?
Temptation ?
I'll can read from Paul's own hand that it happened to Paul post salvation and it happens to "me" beyond any question. Part of the territory of battles. I refuse to let these things turn me into a lying hypocrite and prefer to simply live with the hard truth of it, considering it of the adversary. Evil lawless thoughts do come from within, IF we have been gifted the honesty to say it's a fact.
Are you referring to temptations ?
Sadly many fall on this particular count and I consider it a major train wreck for "faith" to fall to that level, and claim to be "not like the other sinners," whom if you recall, Jesus wasn't too happy with.
Just sayin
If you are still referring to temptations, they won't stop until Jesus returns.
Thankfully, we now have the power to resist them, as we walk in and after the Spirit now instead of the flesh.
No need to itemize. Jesus told us the path of the deceivers arrival. Lawless evil defiling thoughts is how deception starts.
OK.
The law was always meant to bring for liars and deceivers claiming to be legally compliant.
Can you write that as a complete sentence ?
The pews are full of "them." With nary a clue I might add

Fortunately most of orthodoxy maintains the facts of the matters, somewhat.
"Somewhat" ?
If what you call orthodoxy can't be trusted to be perfect, how can it be trusted at all ?
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump !
But even they will hesitate to pin the tempter's operations internally, preferring to blame themselves only, thinking it never happens to them. But cough cough
What/who do you consider as "orthodoxy" ?
 
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Hoping2

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You have not even responded to what I said.
That's like saying, Satan is birds, rather than the birds represent Satan.
Which is really completely wrong, and reveals a lack of understanding, or appreciation for illustrative usage.
I didn't say the word "represent": you did.
If the lake of fire IS the second death, so too the second death IS a lake of fire.
The Bible says the woman is destroyed. Revelation 17:16
The people are not said to be destroyed, or cast into the lake of fire.
You are just saying anything aren't you? This appears to be a fun exercise for you, just saying anything, and not addressing anything.
I go by what Jesus said in Matt 25:45-46..."Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."
Bye.
You take care.
OK
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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No, as I wrote earlier, children turn from being children of man to either children of the devil
So when God said we have One Father, Matt. 23:9, and God said all of Israel are God's children, said God's children turn into (children of the) devil(s)? That does seem then that God fosters devils.

Doesn't that also then mean God could do the same, turn into the devil?
Jesus was also talking to men who were not reborn of God's seed.
Jesus told us "man" shall live by every Word of God, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

There are no exemptions for any man or person from Mark 7:21-23 and the corresponding like verses in Matt.

Evil thoughts do come from within that are contrary to the law, period. And I'll add: Only honest people can say this fact. Dishonest people can't own up to it.

Where I grew up we said the pope puts on his pants just like we do.
If what you call orthodoxy can't be trusted to be perfect, how can it be trusted at all ?
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump !
Unfortunately most sects have their various differences because they want to avoid hell and be 100% right on every jot and tittle and be only correct. Not saying this isn't a noble effort, but it is all works based salvation narratives. I don't consider any of them truthful. Some are even harmful. But any way that Jesus is preached, Paul was good with it. I'd suggest he had more faith in Jesus than the proclaimers of and adherents to Jesus.

A lot of people who think they are following Jesus are really just following an imaginary story some sect came up with that isn't even close to accurate or truthful. But they all got bills to pay too.

Orthodoxy to me is anyone who accepts the fundamentals presented in the Nicene creed. Basic formats are a good starting point to gauge and guard against positions that present utter nonsense. Too bad they left out "love your neighbors" from near the top of the list. Don't know how they managed to miss that part.

The lowly publican went to his home justified, because he was simply honest:

Luke 18:
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Yes, God does save sinners, present tense application sinners. No one is ever sinless. 1 Tim. 1:15

I do get a kick out of people who've managed to convince themselves otherwise. Can such be any blinder?
 
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Hoping2

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Your quote/copy of the first line of my post left off a key ending.
So when God said we have One Father, Matt. 23:9, and God said all of Israel are God's children, said God's children turn into (children of the) devil(s)? That does seem then that God fosters devils.
Matt 23:9-10..."And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."
From the reading of that verse, we can see that Jesus is trying to appeal to the "multitude's" better half/ intent/nature.
For we know that not all of them were actually children of God.
Judas, for instance.
Jesus never started a comment or teaching with "Whosoever among you are really interested/intent on righteousness listen to me..."
He was all inclusive, so as not to alienate anyone.
Everyone got a chance to heed Him.
Doesn't that also then mean God could do the same, turn into the devil?
No.
Jesus told us "man" shall live by every Word of God, Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3
Amen to that.
But does "every" man actually do that ?
No, Only those that want to live forever with Jesus.
There are no exemptions for any man or person from Mark 7:21-23 and the corresponding like verses in Matt.
Certainly true, for those still walking in and after the "flesh".
It would still be a few years(?) until men could walk in and after the Spirit.
Evil thoughts do come from within that are contrary to the law, period. And I'll add: Only honest people can say this fact. Dishonest people can't own up to it.
They do for men in the "flesh".
The unregenerated have no other option, until they turn from sin and get reborn of God's seed.
Where I grew up we said the pope puts on his pants just like we do.
OK
Unfortunately most sects have their various differences because they want to avoid hell and be 100% right on every jot and tittle and be only correct. Not saying this isn't a noble effort, but it is all works based salvation narratives.
The works manifest in whom one believes and trusts.
I don't consider any of them truthful. Some are even harmful.
Only one sect is either truthful or harmless.
But any way that Jesus is preached, Paul was good with it.
Agreed.
I'd suggest he had more faith in Jesus than the proclaimers of and adherents to Jesus.
Knowing only of Paul, I can't agree with that generality.
A lot of people who think they are following Jesus are really just following an imaginary story some sect came up with that isn't even close to accurate or truthful. But they all got bills to pay too.
OK
Orthodoxy to me is anyone who accepts the fundamentals presented in the Nicene creed. Basic formats are a good starting point to gauge and guard against positions that present utter nonsense. Too bad they left out "love your neighbors" from near the top of the list. Don't know how they managed to miss that part.
Do you really think the original church by Christ Jesus would forget that ?
The lowly publican went to his home justified, because he was simply honest:
Luke 18:
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Justification is temporary.
The next sin annuls it.
Yes, God does save sinners, present tense application sinners. No one is ever sinless. 1 Tim. 1:15
Nobody will be saved without a real, permanent, repentance from sin.
I do get a kick out of people who've managed to convince themselves otherwise. Can such be any blinder?
I say that all things are possible, in Christ.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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Everyone got a chance to heed Him.
I don't believe in the god of chance. Sorry. The god who only becomes "effective" upon "our" performances.

God IS The Father of us all. No amount of chance or disbelief is capable of changing that fact.

Nor do God's children turn into devils as you've proposed. Or turn back into children of God again. What a mess.
Amen to that.
But does "every" man actually do that ?

Again, this is not a "you must do something" in order for God to make it so, situation. Man shall live, emphasis, live, by every Word of God. It's not capable of being wiped away by the choices of anyone. It's a One Way Street. A One Sided Deal.

Certainly true, for those still walking in and after the "flesh".
It would still be a few years(?) until men could walk in and after the Spirit.
Same drill. Jesus said evil comes from within in the forms of illegal evil thoughts that defile us all.

This isn't optional based on our performances. It's a hard line God Stated Fact. Paul elaborates on this quite succinctly in Romans 7 showing that he still "did evil," Romans 7:19, had "evil present" with him, Romans 7:21 and that his flesh still served the "law of sin," Romans 7:25, had a devil in his own flesh, 2 Cor. 12:7, still had temptation "is his flesh," Gal. 4:14, and was the chief of sinners, present tense "I am," after salvation, 1 Tim. 1:15

Paul was far far far from a "self promoter" of good decisions justifying himself. Quite the opposite. If anything he drives a condemnation stake through himself to put the matters to rest.

In order to even step into being a legitimate disciple of Jesus we hate our own lives because of the same facts. Luke 14:26. And there is ample cause to do so. And we also hate the evil present in others.

We tend to get brainwashed by various God always and only loves us stories. I don't believe any of them.

There is an extreme reason to actually FEAR God, because of the fact of evil present within us. Particularly if we lie about the fact.

Heb. 10:22 also shows us we have an evil conscience. There is no getting around this kind of stuff unless we are simply blinded by the fact of it. And when we come away from prayer, it's still there. What we are washed by is simple "honesty." No liar can speak the fact of it, because it's TRUE.

Do you really think the original church by Christ Jesus would forget that ?
The "love your neighbors" commands? Uh, yeah. That's pretty much gone at this point, having been reduced to lip service and burying what they really present, which is "believe like me or burn alive forever." (or be eternally annihilated, not much different.) None of that is "love your neighbors."
Nobody will be saved without a real, permanent, repentance from sin.
No one is ever sinless in this present life.

That Seat was Reserved for Jesus Himself. No one else sits there.

I pity those who buy into those various delusions of self justifications following twisted tails.

But nevertheless, however Jesus is proclaimed, HE DOES AND WILL come through, regardless.
 
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Hoping2

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I don't believe in the god of chance. Sorry. The god who only becomes "effective" upon "our" performances.
Me either.
I believe in the God who gives everybody the chance to be reborn of His seed.
Without that rebirth, Jesus says..."no man will see the kingdom of God". (John 3:3)
God IS The Father of us all. No amount of chance or disbelief is capable of changing that fact.
God was not my Father while I still served the devil and sin.
I had to repent of sin, and get reborn for that honor.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)
Nor do God's children turn into devils as you've proposed. Or turn back into children of God again. What a mess.
That was not my proposition.
Children of men, turn into children of the devil when they commit their first sin.
They can become the children of God, though, if they will turn from darkness and unto the light.
It is written..."9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:9,7)
Again, this is not a "you must do something" in order for God to make it so, situation.
I disagree, as those who walk in the flesh need the grace of God, and His delivery system, to escape the life they once lived in the "flesh".
It is a choice the righteous have made whole heartedly.
Man shall live, emphasis, live, by every Word of God. It's not capable of being wiped away by the choices of anyone. It's a One Way Street. A One Sided Deal.
I'm not sure what you are referring to either time you say "it's" ?
What gets wiped away ?
What deal do you refer to ?
Same drill. Jesus said evil comes from within in the forms of illegal evil thoughts that defile us all.
The only ones defiled by evil thoughts, are the ones who give in to them.
They are called temptations, and the reborn have been enabled to resist them. (James 4:7)
This isn't optional based on our performances.
I disagree.
If righteousness were not a choice we could make, all men would perish.
It's a hard line God Stated Fact. Paul elaborates on this quite succinctly in Romans 7 showing that he still "did evil," Romans 7:19, had "evil present" with him, Romans 7:21
Are you unaware of Roman 8:2's delivery from the "law of sin" ?
Rom 8:2..." For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
Rom 7 is Paul's present-historical tense lament, and from his preconversion life.
and that his flesh still served the "law of sin," Romans 7:25,
Are you unaware of of 7:5's statement that Paul was no longer in the "flesh" ?
It is written..."5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
All the later allusions to life in the "flesh", are memories from the past, as a Pharisee and trying, unsuccessfully, to please God with Law keeping.
had a devil in his own flesh, 2 Cor. 12:7,
You may have misread it, as it actually says "a thorn" in him...a reminder of his own infirmities.
still had temptation "is his flesh," Gal. 4:14,
Unfortunately, your intention to discredit Paul has led you to exclude the comment from Gal 4:14 from its context.
It is written..."13 "Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus." (Gal 4:13-14)
Paul had some medical or disfigurement problem that the Corinthians were able to see past.
Thanks be to God.
and was the chief of sinners, present tense "I am," after salvation, 1 Tim. 1:15
He was the worst of those Jesus came to save.
That doesn't mean he continued to persecute the church...does it ?
Paul was far far far from a "self promoter" of good decisions justifying himself. Quite the opposite. If anything he drives a condemnation stake through himself to put the matters to rest.
Sorry to see you with such low esteem for one Jesus chose to take the message of freedom to both Jews an Gentiles.
One can't preach a message he doesn't manifest with one's life.
In order to even step into being a legitimate disciple of Jesus we hate our own lives because of the same facts. Luke 14:26. And there is ample cause to do so. And we also hate the evil present in others.
Do you hate yourself enough to crucify the old you, with the affections and lusts " (Gal 5:24)
Many have.
We tend to get brainwashed by various God always and only loves us stories. I don't believe any of them.
Me either, as Jesus died for the sins of the world, leaving us in control of our own destiny.
How much more loving can our Savior get ?
There is an extreme reason to actually FEAR God, because of the fact of evil present within us. Particularly if we lie about the fact.
If that fear can't prod one to serve God instead of serve sin, his fear was not real
Heb. 10:22 also shows us we have an evil conscience. There is no getting around this kind of stuff unless we are simply blinded by the fact of it. And when we come away from prayer, it's still there. What we are washed by is simple "honesty." No liar can speak the fact of it, because it's TRUE.
Heb 10:22 shows that the evil conscience has been purged.
It is written..."22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." (Heb 10:22)
That "sprinkling" and that "washing" were effective for me to be washed of all that I despised from my past...like Paul was in Rom 7.
The "love your neighbors" commands? Uh, yeah. That's pretty much gone at this point, having been reduced to lip service and burying what they really present, which is "believe like me or burn alive forever." (or be eternally annihilated, not much different.) None of that is "love your neighbors."
The lack of belief, and obedience, will condemn many.
Some do believe, and obey.
No one is ever sinless in this present life.
I disagree, as if nobody ever really repented of sin, both John the Baptist, and Jesus Himself, were a waste of time.
On the contrary, they were both highly successful in their missions to earth.
That Seat was Reserved for Jesus Himself. No one else sits there.
It is written..."It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord." (Matt 10:25)
I pity those who buy into those various delusions of self justifications following twisted tails.
Me too, but thankfully God has provided the blood of His only begotten Son to justify us, at its application when we are baptized into Him, and into His death.
But nevertheless, however Jesus is proclaimed, HE DOES AND WILL come through, regardless.
He will indeed keep His promises.
Like, for instance..."22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-23)
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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No, as I wrote earlier, children turn from being children of man to either children of the devil or of God.
We all have One Father. God. No child of man there. Jesus didn't put a qualifier in there either. Matt. 23:9

Generally accepted principle except in certain works salvation cults.

I might suggest that children of the devil are demons, not people, if we're paying attention to the narratives. A legion of them inhabited one man for example. 7 were cast out Mary Magdalene.

Pity not to recognize the distinct difference in the parties involved. But confusion is understandable in those who can't perceive temptations in themselves are in fact from a source that is not them.

I disagree, as if nobody ever really repented of sin, both John the Baptist, and Jesus Himself, were a waste of time.
On the contrary, they were both highly successful in their missions to earth.
Jesus did come to set captives free, but that does not mean we are sinless. We see the difference between ourselves and the disobedience we are bound with that is foreign. Not of the person.

At some point our enemies will be put away permanently. But to say we are sinless and free of the battles should be recognized as utter nonsense by anyone engaged in the battles. We wrestle not with flesh and blood....We could say like Paul did, that sins are not counted against people, 2 Cor. 5:19. But in the same breath they are counted against the devils that work against everyone. It's not a single edged sword.

There is the person. There are the opponents, unseen. The battle ground is not readily apparent, nor is the armor, nor are the enemies. But it is all very real, nevertheless.

Me too, but thankfully God has provided the blood of His only begotten Son to justify us, at its application when we are baptized into Him, and into His death.
Kind of the whole point of the exercise is to see that what applies to the person doesn't apply to the opponent.

It's never a one size fits all deal for anyone. Jesus can look anyone in the face and speak to the opposer who is not th person.

We just don't see it, because we are blinded to "them by them." Even though they both speak and act, openly. They especially oppose being pinpointed in anyone, just as we are doing here. One of us anyway.

I'm not letting my opponents off the hook. No reason to. Were it possible to "kill them" I would. But that is not in our hands. They die in the LoF at the finale of this wicked age.

He will indeed keep His promises.
Like, for instance..."22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matt 7:22-23)
And you fear to hear His Words above.

I can't wait to hear those same Words spoken to my face, because I know and believe that man shall LIVE by every Word of God. And that God is the enemy of my enemy
 
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Hoping2

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We all have One Father. God. No child of man there. Jesus didn't put a qualifier in there either. Matt. 23:9

Generally accepted principle except in certain works salvation cults.

I might suggest that children of the devil are demons, not people, if we're paying attention to the narratives. A legion of them inhabited one man for example. 7 were cast out Mary Magdalene.

Pity not to recognize the distinct difference in the parties involved. But confusion is understandable in those who can't perceive temptations in themselves are in fact from a source that is not them.


Jesus did come to set captives free, but that does not mean we are sinless. We see the difference between ourselves and the disobedience we are bound with that is foreign. Not of the person.

At some point our enemies will be put away permanently. But to say we are sinless and free of the battles should be recognized as utter nonsense by anyone engaged in the battles. We wrestle not with flesh and blood....We could say like Paul did, that sins are not counted against people, 2 Cor. 5:19. But in the same breath they are counted against the devils that work against everyone. It's not a single edged sword.

There is the person. There are the opponents, unseen. The battle ground is not readily apparent, nor is the armor, nor are the enemies. But it is all very real, nevertheless.


Kind of the whole point of the exercise is to see that what applies to the person doesn't apply to the opponent.

It's never a one size fits all deal for anyone. Jesus can look anyone in the face and speak to the opposer who is not th person.

We just don't see it, because we are blinded to "them by them." Even though they both speak and act, openly. They especially oppose being pinpointed in anyone, just as we are doing here. One of us anyway.

I'm not letting my opponents off the hook. No reason to. Were it possible to "kill them" I would. But that is not in our hands. They die in the LoF at the finale of this wicked age.


And you fear to hear His Words above.

I can't wait to hear those same Words spoken to my face, because I know and believe that man shall LIVE by every Word of God. And that God is the enemy of my enemy
I disagree with nearly all of your post.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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I disagree with nearly all of your post.
Of course you do. You have no choice but to disagree.

I agree we have sufficiently delineated between salvation by Grace through God in Christ and the typical works gospel with a side serving of sinless performances, which is of course utter nonsense to me. No offense intended but you should hear it from someone. It's only right to point out obvious huge scripture gaps in various theories.
 
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Hoping2

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Of course you do. You have no choice but to disagree.

I agree we have sufficiently delineated between salvation by Grace through God in Christ and the typical works gospel with a side serving of sinless performances, which is of course utter nonsense to me. No offense intended but you should hear it from someone. It's only right to point out obvious huge scripture gaps in various theories.
It is written..."But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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It is written..."But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)
Sin is of the devil. Doesn't mean we don't engage "the sinner."
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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Jeremiah 7:31 clearly shows that the idea of God burning his children in a fiery lake, is really a lie from Satan.
The Bible clearly states that the lake of fire is used as a symbol for the second death. Revelation 1:1; Revelation 20:13, 14. Not a literal lake of fire.
Jeremiah 7:31 refers ONLY to the Jews sacrificing their children in the fire, which God did NOT command, it does NOT refer to eternal punishment,
Jeremiah 7:30-31​
(30) For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the LORD: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, [the temple] to pollute it.​
(31) And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.​
 
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Hoping2

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