Advice about how a child should act with toxic parents

BrokenContriteHeart · Sunday at 2:49 AM

Hey all,

I'm looking for advice about how I deal with my parents. My dad is in his late 80s with cancer and my mum in her mid 80s. I'm posting this with great caution after not wanting to air my parents' dirty laundry in public (bearing in mind my understanding of Noah's Curse on Ham after Ham drew attention to his father's shame in this post)

Noah & the Curse of Ham

Hey all, I had a question about how we should interpret these verses in Genesis 9: And Noah began to be a master of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. And he drank of the wine and became drunk, and he uncovered himself within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's...

www.christianforums.com

The relationship between my mum and dad is pretty toxic, and this is reflected in the parent-child and sibling-sibling relationships as well. Both of them divorced their past husband/wife to get married after committing adultery. So this precluded my dad from being a pastor at church although the church was OK with him being a Bible teacher (it wasn't his day job).

To give you some examples of the venom from my dad:
My dad uses a walking stick and has fallen a few times already. When my mum offered to hold his hand to help him walk in public, he berated his wife in public, saying "I'd rather die than hold your hand."

They used to have a domestic servant. When there was a dispute between the domestic servant and my mum, on two occasions my dad chased my mum out of the house, favoring instead the domestic servant.

This is first hand testimony and not conveyed to me by my mum about what my dad did --- I was there when I learnt that my mum's brother passed away. I told her in the presence of my dad. We were walking to a restaurant at that time. My mum broke down in tears, wailed and needed to sit down on a park bench on the way -- all in public. My dad did not even ask my mum if she was OK, offer sympathies, hold her or hug her. He just stared at her, and frowned at the delay in us getting dinner when my mum needed to sit down for a while.

My dad has been in debt a few times in his life through bad financial decisions. Altogether he's burnt through about ten family properties (his parents were quite wealthy) and sold them to cover his poor financial stewardship. At the moment he has no income and my mum supports him with rent from her properties she carefully built up over the years. About 75% of my mum's gross income goes to my dad (and he still treats her this way). Some recent verbal venom my dad gave to my mum was, "What good have you done for people?" My dad gives out charity - with my mum's money, and basks in the credit for it as the "great" Bible teacher of the church.

For my mum's birthday, she showed me WhatsApp messages from lots of people from the church, wishing her a happy and blessed birthday. Notably absent was any birthday greeting from her husband.

My mum on the other hand relives and recounts the traumas she gets from my dad by telling everyone who would listen what he does to her. It can't be healthy (spiritually, mentally or physically) not only for her but her audience.

So....my question is what I should do as the child. For a start I really don't want to hear these awful stories from my mum, but she has no one else to talk to. The venom and repeated traumas between them is too much that no one from their existing church wants to be the Christian friend and shoulder to lean on. So I have to listen to these stories and it really affects me seeing how "mature Christians" act.

Also, although I haven't asked my dad for money for a long time, I remember when I did, he never held back. So I don't feel it's my place to put brakes on his spending now, especially when he is ill with cancer. Also, even if he didn't provide for me, we are told to honor our parents (without any condition such as "only if they are good to the children....")

My dad has asked me and the other children for money a few times. I'm kind of reluctant to give because I feel the money would be wasted or given away so he can seem like the good/generous church Bible teacher (for example he's taken out his Bible students to expensive restaurants and paid for them from money he got from his children or my mum). He also gave (with no contract!) a church leader who claimed to be a good investor a lot of money after the person asked my dad to give him money to invest. Naturally when my dad asked for how his investment was doing, this weasel said he had lost all my father's money.

Any advice or prayers would be much appreciated.

timf · Sunday at 5:35 AM

One can understand the pain this caused you, both in childhood and even now. I also grew up in a toxic home. It can help to see your parents not so much as perpetrators but as victims themselves. They probably grew up ignorant of many things in life. They probably had a trajectory in life that almost would guarantee that they would end up where they did.

One would expect non-Christians might end up in misery in life. However, people can be Christian and end up just as or even more miserable by continuing to walk in the flesh. It can be amazing the level of pain people will endure and still not be motivated to take corrective action.

One big problem for some Christians is substituting being "right" for seeking truth. Truth can only lead to humility which opens the door for grace.

Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

I tried reaching out by letter to my parents when they were older and found I could make a little progress with them. However, the inertia of a lifetime is not often open to alteration. When you consider we are all born helpless, ignorant, and selfish, it is amazing that God can reach any of us.

I would not give money to someone who is not good with it. You might instead give gift certificates at a grocery store or other tangible things that cannot be easily squandered.

Consider the biblical admonition to care for a "weaker brother". Now that I am old, I appreciate those who bear with me when I tell a story they have heard before. This is why I try to keep my stories short. If you parents want to describe how poorly they have been treated, they are looking for attention and sympathy. If you introduce Christ in your responses (have you prayed about this, how would Jesus respond, have you forgive seventy times seven yet, etc.) you might find they loose interest in telling you.

In the end they will pass. It is unlikely anything will change. However, you can benefit from seeing in them a life you would prefer to avoid. Disconnection from that which is toxic is a first survival step. However, as one grows in faith, one should be able to approach toxicity with a patient transcendence that remains unaffected but can show charity.

No one like discomfort, but it is often by this that we gain any interest in Christ. People often ask why a loving God would allow suffering. We might also ask if we didn't have suffering would we end up any different than the people before the flood.

Richard T · Sunday at 9:12 AM

Here is the situation with Noah that some believe occurred.

Noah, Ham and the Curse of Canaan: Who Did What to Whom in the Tent? - TheTorah.com

Why does Noah express such a severe curse for the seemingly minor sin of observing his nakedness? Why does Noah curse his grandson instead of his son? | Prof. Rabbi David Frankel

www.thetorah.com

I do not think that scripture or curse is thus applicable to you.
You seem to be honoring your parents the best you can and I am sorrow for such struggles. Repeating stories and bitterness are common among older people. I doubt there is much you can do other than pray. Perhaps redirect your mom's conversation so she will not dig up the past so much. I think too that your dad has to be forgiven of his financial decisions. Seems weird he would have no income of his own. Nearly all countries have some type of social security system.
I wish there was easy advice. If your dad is totally reckless with money, he might be declared incompetent and a legal guardian might be set up to oversee his spending. (again, this is what could occur in the USA, but I think it is similar elsewhere). You are right to be skeptical in supporting or I should say perhaps enabling him financially. Sadly, this is likely to only get worse. The most helpful thing you can do is just be a kind witness of Christ, practicing tough love at times, yet remaining caring and helpful when it is possible. Still, children are to leave their parents and cleave to their spouse. Gen 2:24. You certainly should be putting God first too in your responsibilities that He has given.
Sounds like you are doing the best that you can. If you find the situation is hurting you too much, then I think it is perfectly good to create the distance you need. God bless you as you continue to learn to deal with this.

fm107 · Sunday at 6:23 PM

BrokenContriteHeart said:
Hey all,

I'm looking for advice about how I deal with my parents. My dad is in his late 80s with cancer and my mum in her mid 80s. I'm posting this with great caution after not wanting to air my parents' dirty laundry in public (bearing in mind my understanding of Noah's Curse on Ham after Ham drew attention to his father's shame in this post)

Noah & the Curse of Ham

Hey all, I had a question about how we should interpret these verses in Genesis 9: And Noah began to be a master of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. And he drank of the wine and became drunk, and he uncovered himself within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's...

www.christianforums.com

The relationship between my mum and dad is pretty toxic, and this is reflected in the parent-child and sibling-sibling relationships as well. Both of them divorced their past husband/wife to get married after committing adultery. So this precluded my dad from being a pastor at church although the church was OK with him being a Bible teacher (it wasn't his day job).

To give you some examples of the venom from my dad:
My dad uses a walking stick and has fallen a few times already. When my mum offered to hold his hand to help him walk in public, he berated his wife in public, saying "I'd rather die than hold your hand."

They used to have a domestic servant. When there was a dispute between the domestic servant and my mum, on two occasions my dad chased my mum out of the house, favoring instead the domestic servant.

This is first hand testimony and not conveyed to me by my mum about what my dad did --- I was there when I learnt that my mum's brother passed away. I told her in the presence of my dad. We were walking to a restaurant at that time. My mum broke down in tears, wailed and needed to sit down on a park bench on the way -- all in public. My dad did not even ask my mum if she was OK, offer sympathies, hold her or hug her. He just stared at her, and frowned at the delay in us getting dinner when my mum needed to sit down for a while.

My dad has been in debt a few times in his life through bad financial decisions. Altogether he's burnt through about ten family properties (his parents were quite wealthy) and sold them to cover his poor financial stewardship. At the moment he has no income and my mum supports him with rent from her properties she carefully built up over the years. About 75% of my mum's gross income goes to my dad (and he still treats her this way). Some recent verbal venom my dad gave to my mum was, "What good have you done for people?" My dad gives out charity - with my mum's money, and basks in the credit for it as the "great" Bible teacher of the church.

For my mum's birthday, she showed me WhatsApp messages from lots of people from the church, wishing her a happy and blessed birthday. Notably absent was any birthday greeting from her husband.

My mum on the other hand relives and recounts the traumas she gets from my dad by telling everyone who would listen what he does to her. It can't be healthy (spiritually, mentally or physically) not only for her but her audience.

So....my question is what I should do as the child. For a start I really don't want to hear these awful stories from my mum, but she has no one else to talk to. The venom and repeated traumas between them is too much that no one from their existing church wants to be the Christian friend and shoulder to lean on. So I have to listen to these stories and it really affects me seeing how "mature Christians" act.

Also, although I haven't asked my dad for money for a long time, I remember when I did, he never held back. So I don't feel it's my place to put brakes on his spending now, especially when he is ill with cancer. Also, even if he didn't provide for me, we are told to honor our parents (without any condition such as "only if they are good to the children....")

My dad has asked me and the other children for money a few times. I'm kind of reluctant to give because I feel the money would be wasted or given away so he can seem like the good/generous church Bible teacher (for example he's taken out his Bible students to expensive restaurants and paid for them from money he got from his children or my mum). He also gave (with no contract!) a church leader who claimed to be a good investor a lot of money after the person asked my dad to give him money to invest. Naturally when my dad asked for how his investment was doing, this weasel said he had lost all my father's money.

Any advice or prayers would be much appreciated.

These matters are not easy to navigate. When such close relations are involved, and money, its hard to know what decisions to make. Really, you need to be praying for the Lord's wisdom for each day. Here is my 2 cents...

YOUR PARENTS
Please do not take offense, but perhaps your parents are not "mature Christians" - in age, yes they are. But Christian maturity has nothing to do with physical age, nor has it to do with the accumulation of bible knowledge alone, but spiritual development.
Both of your parents seem to me, to be carnal in their behavior. 1 Corinthians 3:3
So, do not put them on such a pedestal and find yourself disheartened by them. Your example is Christ and Christians sadly fail.

YOU MUM
Your mum spreading abroad her husbands mistreatments of her is understandable, but she would be far better to take these things to the Lord instead of destroying both their testimonies by telling everyone who would listen. Although you do not like to listen to these stories, she is able to use you as an outlet. A sympathetic ear is no doubt a great help to her. I personally, think you should continue to do so and then take it to the Lord in prayer, and encourage her to do the same.

YOUR DAD
Your dad is now an old man, probably used to having everything done his way, he is set in his ways,
Sadly, the accumulation of bible knowledge has a tendency to make a person puffed up with pride.
There is not much you can do about this, he is unlikely to change except with the Lord softening his heart. Which could well be why he has now developed cancer. These things are for our ultimate good as Christians (Romans 8:28), it could be God's means of taking him down a peg or two, having your father reassess his own behavior and casting himself upon the Lord for His mercy and help to get through it. A Christian should be looking to the Lord, as to why cancer (or any illness for that matter) has entered into his life. It is these trials in life which help shape our character and take away the sharp edges, and make us more Christ-like. Pray that whatever work God is doing, it has the desired affect on your dad's character. Christians lose the benefit, when they dismiss these things as merely nature, etc. God is in control of our lives, and He has a keen interest in his children and nothing enters our lives without Him letting it be so (Luke 12:7, Job 1:12).

MONEY FOR YOUR DAD
You say we are to honor out parents without any condition.
I do not believe God would have you give your money to your dad if he is wasting it away. You are indeed obliged to help your father if and when he has a need (1 Timothy 5:8). A need is one thing, a want is another.
We are to be good stewards of the money and possessions the Lord has entrusted to us. To avoid upsetting your father, I would suggest you be generous (if you can afford to be) with small sums of money, without reluctance, without questioning him. However, if he is asking for large sums, I believe you should be enquiring what it is for, etc so that you are being a good steward yourself. I appreciate this is not easy and could cause a rift with your elderly father. Money is often catalyst for relationships breaking down.

WHAT YOU CAN DO
1) Pray for both your parents every day
2) Pray that God gives you wisdom, to speak and act wisely when around your parents
3) Be a sympathetic, patient, listening ear to your mother and encourage her to take these matters before the Lord. We are not supposed to go to the world with our problems. Faith sees us taking them before the Lord, and exercising patience.
4) If you witness your father's bad behavior, you can rebuke him, gently, entreating him (1 Timothy 5:1). You can even explain how you look up to him as a Christian example and don't like to witness his outburst, this may affect him, when he realises them impact it is having on you.
5) Be the Christian model, you wish your parents were. Young Timothy did so (1 Timothy 4:12)

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Advice about how a child should act with toxic parents

BrokenContriteHeart

Member

Noah & the Curse of Ham

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timf

Regular Member

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Richard T

Well-Known Member

Noah, Ham and the Curse of Canaan: Who Did What to Whom in the Tent? - TheTorah.com

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fm107

Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20

Noah & the Curse of Ham

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