I'm trying to read more into Gods word and one of the things I'm trying to study is the judgement seat of Christ. My question is how is the judgement seat of Christ different from the great white throne of judgement? What I have read and maybe heard is the judgement seat of Christ is for believers and has to do with what we have done in our bodies good or bad (2 Corinthians 5:10) and the great white throne of judgement is for unbelievers but how do we know this? What has led to the belief? What is the evidence in the bible for it? Thanks.
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How is the judgement seat of Christ is different from the great white throne of judgement? And how do we know that it's different and not the same?
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Guojing
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Start with Paul's message to us gentiles, do you think he is preaching to us that salvation depends on works?
If your answer, as expected is no, he taught us that salvation is the gift of God and is based on faith only (Romans 4:5), then the judgement he is speaking to us about in 2 Cor 5:10, cannot be the same great white throne judgement, the latter is when you are thrown to hell for lack of works (Rev 20:13)
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The Great White throne Judgment is in Rev 20 -- after the 1000 year Millennium.
The "judgment seat of Christ" is what we see in Dan 7 - before Christ's appearing, before setting up a kingdom, and while the saints on Earth are being persecuted as Dan 7 points out.
IT is what Paul speaks of in Rom 2:4-16
And it is what we see in 2 Cor 5:10
When that judgment is over - Dan 7 says Christ takes over. Rev 19 has Christ taking over.
Rev 22 says that When Christ takes over - "His reward is with Him"
Anyone having any claim to have known about the gospel/Christ any claim to have followed the Holy Spirt will be in that judgment of Dan 7 that happens before Rev 20 great white throne judgment, before the millennium and before Christ appears in Rev 19, that is to say before His coming as described in Matt 24:29-31
But as Jesus shows us in Matt 7 - "not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord - will enter the kingdom of heaven". "The many" of Matt 7 are on the wide road to destruction as Christ says in Matt 7. The 'many' say to Christ "Lord Lord did we not do this in your name...and that in your name" - but they fail because in the end - they did not actually do the will of the Father according to Christ in Matt 7.
The good news is that no one "needs to fail" - because as Jesus said in John 16 - the Holy Spirit is sent to let us know if we have a problem and to bring the new birth, and to enable us to follow Christ as Romans 8 points out.
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TruthInLight
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Does the thing in Matthew 7:21-23 happen in the judgement seat of Christ? And the separation of the sheeps and goats in Matthew 25?
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They happen primarily in Dan 7:9-10 where in vs 22 we find that "judgment is passed in favor of the saints". And as Dan 7 states - the entire time the judgment takes place - the saints are tormented by the wicked.
IT also happens in a secondary sense at Matt 24:29-31 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 when the Lord comes - and raptures the saints.
Notice that in Matt 7 the saints are already found to both "say Lord Lord" and also to have done the will of the Father.
So then who are they? How are they evaluated?
That determination process is pictured for us in Rom 2:4-16 both the succeeding and failing cases are noted in that summary review of what happens in the judgment that is future to Paul's day according to vs 16.
And we see that judgment described again for us in the Dan 7 judgment - - where everyone is judged out of things written in the books and the outcome is 'judgment passed in favor of the saints" Dan 7:22 using the rule we see in Rom 2:4-16 "on the day when according to my Gospel God will judge mankind"
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Very often the NT reminds us that the judgment was future to the NT age -- as we saw in Rom 2:15-16.
Dan 7 also shows that judgment to be future to the fall of the fourth empire in Dan 7 - the Roman empire
Dan 7 also shows it to be taking place while the people of God on earth are being tormented by the wicked.
Many conclude that the Dan 7,8,9 details reveal that the judgment in heaven started in the 1800's.
Rev 11 says that when the judgment in heaven starts - it starts with the cases of the dead "the time came for the dead to be judged" Rev 11:18
The cases of the dead are processed first - then the cases of the living will come up.
The first humans to die were those living before the flood.
But we are also told that judgment begins with those who know the most about God. 1 Pet 4:17
"17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" 1 Pet 4:17
So as it continues from ancient time until eventually it gets to the present - it begins each age with the house of God (That is to say anyone with even the remotest claim to have followed in the path the Holy Spirit set out for them).
Matt 7 Jesus says that not everyone who knows Him, claims to know Him will pass the judgment ok.
Dan 7 says that Jesus will take over - once that Dan 7:9-10 judgment process in heaven completes.
Dan 7 also shows that judgment to be future to the fall of the fourth empire in Dan 7 - the Roman empire
Dan 7 also shows it to be taking place while the people of God on earth are being tormented by the wicked.
Many conclude that the Dan 7,8,9 details reveal that the judgment in heaven started in the 1800's.
Rev 11 says that when the judgment in heaven starts - it starts with the cases of the dead "the time came for the dead to be judged" Rev 11:18
The cases of the dead are processed first - then the cases of the living will come up.
The first humans to die were those living before the flood.
But we are also told that judgment begins with those who know the most about God. 1 Pet 4:17
"17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" 1 Pet 4:17
So as it continues from ancient time until eventually it gets to the present - it begins each age with the house of God (That is to say anyone with even the remotest claim to have followed in the path the Holy Spirit set out for them).
Matt 7 Jesus says that not everyone who knows Him, claims to know Him will pass the judgment ok.
Dan 7 says that Jesus will take over - once that Dan 7:9-10 judgment process in heaven completes.
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There is a message that goes out to the world at the time that the judgment in heaven described in Dan 7 - begins.
We see it in Rev 14:6-7 - the message is "fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment HAS COME"
It is like Christ in Mark 1:14-15 saying "The time IS FUFILLED" as He starts His ministry.
What time is fulfilled - answer: the one predicted in Dan 9. That part of the 490 year (70 weeks of years) timeline pointing to the start of the Messiah's ministry.
IN the same way Rev 14:6-76 points to a timeline in Daniel pointing to the start of the judgment in heaven. That start point has been reached when the message of Rev14:6-7 goes out to the Earth.
We see it in Rev 14:6-7 - the message is "fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment HAS COME"
It is like Christ in Mark 1:14-15 saying "The time IS FUFILLED" as He starts His ministry.
What time is fulfilled - answer: the one predicted in Dan 9. That part of the 490 year (70 weeks of years) timeline pointing to the start of the Messiah's ministry.
IN the same way Rev 14:6-76 points to a timeline in Daniel pointing to the start of the judgment in heaven. That start point has been reached when the message of Rev14:6-7 goes out to the Earth.
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Marston
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I guess it's my understanding and belief that we are judged immediately upon death. It seems unnecessary to have another judgment and so I'm inclined to think that the GWTJ is symbolic of the judgment that all receive at their time of death rather than a literal event.
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Hello Anonymous0210, I think one of the biggest differences between the Bema Seat Judgment and the Great White Throne Judgment is what happens at each, specifically concerning condemnation and damnation, which will only occur to those (unbelievers) who are judged by the Lord Jesus at the GWT.
As I understand it, the Bema Seat is for the saints, alone. This Judgment will involve the receiving of rewards (or the lack thereof) for deeds done in the body during our lives here, but none who stand in this Judgment will be condemned, even those whose works are completely burned up (because all are already saved). Here is a short passage that speaks to some of this,
1 Corinthians 3
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one must be careful how he builds.
11 For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw,
13 his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work.
14 If what he has built survives, he will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He himself ~will be saved~, but only as if through the flames.
God bless you!!
--David
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Marston
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Respectfully, it seems unlikely that we will have multiple judgments. I think some are gleaning things from these verses that aren't actually there. Paul and John were both describing Judgment. I think, and I may certainly be mistaken, but I think that we're judged when we die and then that's it.
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Hello Marston, yes, I believe that there are three main "Judgments" described in the Bible in the end times, and it is also true that some believe that there are three separate Judgments (The Judgment of the Nations, Matt 25, the Bema Seat Judgment, 2 Cor 5, and the GWT, Rev 20), some two, some believe the three are one, and some, like you, believe in no official Judgments, at all.
For years I've wondered about this, but at this point in time I have come to believe that there are multiple end times Judgments (due to the amount of detail that each has been given in the Bible). So, while I believe in three, like you, I also realize that I could be mistaken.
As one of my friends used to say, "die and learn"
I also try to remember the following verse whenever I run into Biblical mysteries, first off, because it reminds me that there are things which have simply not been revealed to us by God yet, at least not fully, and then secondly, it reminds me that what God has chosen to reveal to us is all that we need to find Him and to be saved by Him
Deuteronomy 29
29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.
God bless you!!
--David
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There is no difference. At the Last Judgement we will be judged by Christ Pantocrator. The claim these are distinct appears to be related to 19th century theologies that revived the Chiliast idea, but the Second Ecumenical Synod in 381 sought to put to rest the idea of Chiliasm by including in the Creed the phrase “Whose Kingdom shall have no end.”
Christ is not merely the Son and Word of God, but God Himself (John 1:1-18), and thus our sole Advocate also happens to be our sole Judge, which should be reassuring to Christians.
I recommend reading books about the Eschaton, or theology in general, only from the early church Fathers, and from those affiliated with the traditional liturgical churches, which include the mainstream liturgical Protestant churches such as the continuing Anglican churches, the Anglican Church of North America, the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and its communion partners the LCC and AALC, and a few other traditional Lutheran churches like the North American Lutheran Church, and a few others, for example, I haven’t heard anything disagreeable from the pulpit of Park Street Church in Boston, and also the Eastern Orthodox churches, the Oriental Orthodox churches (Armenian, Coptic, Syriac, Ethiopian), the Assyrian Church of the East, the Ancient Church of the East and some others.
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I think they're one and the same. There will only be the one judgement seat, and that will apply to all of us.
Even those who go to heaven will still see their lives as God saw them, warts and all. The difference is that the saints will be forgiven due to their repentance and Christ's gift of salvation.
John Newton who wrote "Amazing Grace" will still have to bear the acute embarassment of seeing his earlier years as a vulgar, decadent slave trader and "kept man", despite his famous hymn.
What he will also see is how God's grace worked in his life. He had so many close shaves in his slave ship years that he was convinced that God's grace was wholly responsible for his eventual salvation, hence "Amazing Grace" and "... saved a wretch like me...".
Ditto for the rest of us - we'll see how God worked in our lives, despite our own behaviour. It will all be there in glorious technicolour.
Even those who go to heaven will still see their lives as God saw them, warts and all. The difference is that the saints will be forgiven due to their repentance and Christ's gift of salvation.
John Newton who wrote "Amazing Grace" will still have to bear the acute embarassment of seeing his earlier years as a vulgar, decadent slave trader and "kept man", despite his famous hymn.
What he will also see is how God's grace worked in his life. He had so many close shaves in his slave ship years that he was convinced that God's grace was wholly responsible for his eventual salvation, hence "Amazing Grace" and "... saved a wretch like me...".
Ditto for the rest of us - we'll see how God worked in our lives, despite our own behaviour. It will all be there in glorious technicolour.
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