Spectacular Presentation Of The Wonders Of God's Creation

Joseph G · Thursday at 7:14 AM

The natural universe reveals God's power, majesty, wisdom, and creative Genius. The human conscience reveals God's justice and man's need for redemption. Finally, Jesus Christ is the ultimate revelation of God's love for us.

Stars: Professor John Whitcomb, Th.D. ( Author Of Creationist Classic 'The Genesis Flood'), Dr. Don B. DeYoung (Physicist, Chairman of the Department of Physical Science at Grace College, Winona Lake, Indiana), Ken Ham (Former President and CEO of Answers In Genesis), Dave Hunt (Christian Apologist) and Roger Oakland (Founder of Understanding The Times. Intl.). Narration: Dan Sheedy.

BCP1928 · Thursday at 8:52 AM

Joseph G said:
Spectacular Presentation Of The Wonders Of God's Creation

The natural universe reveals God's power, majesty, wisdom, and creative Genius. The human conscience reveals God's justice and man's need for redemption. Finally, Jesus Christ is the ultimate revelation of God's love for us.

Stars: Professor John Whitcomb, Th.D. ( Author Of Creationist Classic 'The Genesis Flood'), Dr. Don B. DeYoung (Physicist, Chairman of the Department of Physical Science at Grace College, Winona Lake, Indiana), Ken Ham (Former President and CEO of Answers In Genesis), Dave Hunt (Christian Apologist) and Roger Oakland (Founder of Understanding The Times. Intl.). Narration: Dan Sheedy.

Nice video, Joseph, but not really on topic for this forum.

Hans Blaster · Thursday at 9:17 AM

CW: Jason Lisle

David Lamb · Friday at 2:31 AM

BCP1928 said:
Nice video, Joseph, but not really on topic for this forum.

Why ever not. This sub-forum has the title: "Creation and Evolution."

Warden_of_the_Storm · Friday at 2:33 AM

David Lamb said:
Why ever not. This sub-forum has the title: "Creation and Evolution."

An hour and a half long video that basically just goes "God created everything" on a sub-forum of the science forum is just that; an hour and a half long video that basically just goes "God created everything".

There's no argument from the OP, no attempt at talking about evidence. There's nothing.

Ophiolite · Friday at 3:53 AM

David Lamb said:
Why ever not. This sub-forum has the title: "Creation and Evolution."

There are two answers to that question.

You are quite correct. The OP has chosen to share a video that describes the wonders of God's creation and that surely will be of interest to many members. It is wholly appropriate to post it here.
This is a discussion forum and the primary discussion in the past has been discussion of evolution versus creation, often focused on the evidence for evolution. Given that established (and generally accepted) posting practice, the OP seems inappropriate.

Would it surprise you to learn that the support for each answer will tend to split down party lines?

Joseph G · Friday at 5:49 AM

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
An hour and a half long video that basically just goes "God created everything" on a sub-forum of the science forum is just that; an hour and a half long video that basically just goes "God created everything".

There's no argument from the OP, no attempt at talking about evidence. There's nothing.

The evidence is clearly presented in the vid and speaks for itself. But like gazing at an ultrasound and seeing a baby, it takes a heart to overcome denial.

Ezekiel 26:36 NIV
"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

His invitation to come to His Son, for eyes to see, remains, to all...

God bless!

biblegateway.com

Shemjaza · Friday at 6:24 AM

Joseph G said:
The evidence is clearly presented in the vid and speaks for itself. But like gazing at an ultrsound and seeing a baby, it takes a heart to overcome denial.

Ezekiel 26:36 NIV
"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

His invitation to come to His Son, for eyes to see, remains, to all...

God bless!

If someone wants to describe a baby they can make specific descriptions about what they see and why that is relevant... I don't think a description of the complexity and beauty of nature in any way "speaks for itself" as conclusive evidence for a specific creator.

Can you explain how?

Warden_of_the_Storm · Friday at 6:53 AM

Joseph G said:
The evidence is clearly presented in the vid and speaks for itself. But like gazing at an ultrsound and seeing a baby, it takes a heart to overcome denial.

Ezekiel 26:36 NIV
"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

His invitation to come to His Son, for eyes to see, remains, to all...

God bless!

No, all it is is the claim that God created everything. That's not evidence, it's just a claim.

BCP1928 · Friday at 7:13 AM

David Lamb said:
Why ever not. This sub-forum has the title: "Creation and Evolution."

The video celebrates God's authorship of our being. Theists believe it, atheists don't but it has nothing to do with the validity of the theory of evolution, which neither affirms or denies the existence of God.

Ophiolite · Friday at 7:16 AM

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
No, all it is is the claim that God created everything. That's not evidence, it's just a claim.

A justification for that claim is offered.

I have only viewed the video, thus far, up to the presentation of the first argument: a design requires a designer. This is the premise on which the first argument is based. If the premise is flawed, the argument is flawed and should be dismissed. The implication is that a designer is necessarily a conscious, intentional designer. The further implication is that a complex design requires a sophisticated, complex designer.

However, we have clear, quantitative and qualitative, multiply validated evidence that those implications are wrong. Simple, natural processes, for example, have led to the evolution of eyes on multiple occassions. There are hundreds of comparable examples out there in the literature that contradict and undermine the design assertion.

Paley, with his "watch on the heath" argument constructed a powerful web of reason. Darwin was sufficiently impressed by it to mirror some of the structure in "On the Origin of Species", but its premise was wrong and so the argument practically worthless, no matter its elegance.

Belief in the Christian God is a matter of faith. It is upsetting to see misguided attemtps to rope flawed "evidence" and failed premises into the discussion.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Friday at 7:18 AM

Ophiolite said:
A justification for that claim is offered.

I have only viewed the video, thus far, up to the presentation of the first argument: a design requires a designer. This is the premise on which the first argument is based. If the premise is flawed, the argument is flawed and should be dismissed. The implication is that a designer is necessarily a conscious, intentional designer. The further implication is that a complex design requires a sophisticated, complex designer.

However, we have clear, quantitative and qualitative, multiply validated evidence that those implications are wrong. Simple, natural processes, for example, have led to the evolution of eyes on multiple occassions. There are hundreds of comparable examples out there in the literature that contradict and undermine the design assertion.

Paley, with his "watch on the heath" argument constructed a powerful web of reason. Darwin was sufficiently impressed by it to mirror some of the structure in "On the Origin of Species", but its premise was wrong and so the argument practically worthless, no matter its elegance.

Belief in the Christian God is a matter of faith. It is upsetting to see misguided attemtps to rope flawed "evidence" and failed premises into the discussion.

... okay. And?

Ophiolite · Friday at 7:30 AM

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
... okay. And?

There is no "and". I found your post to be incomplete. Being incomplete can be as bad as being wrong. It is certainly undesirable. This is what you said.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
No, all it is is the claim that God created everything. That's not evidence, it's just a claim.

It was not simply a claim, it was an argument. You overlooked that. I pointed that out, then addressed the fact that the argument was based upon a false premise. I reflected on that in a couple of paragraphs. The End.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Friday at 7:31 AM

Ophiolite said:
There is no "and". I found your post to be incomplete. Being incomplete can be as bad as being wrong. It is certainly undesirable. This is what you said.

It was not simply a claim, it was an argument. You overlooked that. I pointed that out, then addressed the fact that the argument was based upon a false premise. I reflected on that in a couple of paragraphs. The End.

Argument, claim, it's still the same thing in the end: it's not evidence. Your commentary was not really necessary for me, but I can see how others would have found it enlightening.

Ophiolite · Friday at 7:42 AM

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Argument, claim, it's still the same thing in the end: it's not evidence. Your commentary was not really necessary for me, but I can see how others would have found it enlightening.

If you wish to see them as the same thing, so be it. I find it more useful to make the distinction.

Why? Claims can be made with little or no regard for logic, evidence, "common sense", etc., but an argument requires thought, and structure and effort. Unsupported claims may be dismissed out of hand, but an argument should be properly disposed of. That was lacking in your post. I provided the dismissal, by identifying the flawed premise.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Friday at 7:44 AM

Ophiolite said:
If you wish to see them as the same thing, so be it. I find it more useful to make the distinction.

Why? Claims can be made with little or no regard for logic, evidence, "common sense", etc., but an argument requires thought, and structure and effort. Unsupported claims may be dismissed out of hand, but an argument should be properly disposed of. That was lacking in your post. I provided the dismissal, by identifying the flawed premise.

And that's entirely for you do to. Though when it comes to creationist PRATTs, it's a distinction without a difference.

David Lamb · Friday at 8:02 AM

BCP1928 said:
The video celebrates God's authorship of our being. Theists believe it, atheists don't but it has nothing to do with the validity of the theory of evolution, which neither affirms or denies the existence of God.

But it does have to do with creation, which is one of the topics of this forum.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Friday at 8:08 AM

David Lamb said:
But it does have to do with creation, which is one of the topics of this forum.

But it just says that God has created everything and leaves it at that. That does nothing except to just repeat the claim/argument.

BCP1928 · Friday at 8:11 AM

David Lamb said:
But it does have to do with creation, which is one of the topics of this forum.

But it has nothing to do with creationism or evolution. An evolutionary biologists or a layman who understands evolutionary theory can believe that God 'designed' the Universe--or not, as his faith dictates.

Ophiolite · Friday at 8:11 AM

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
And that's entirely for you do to. Though when it comes to creationist PRATTs, it's a distinction without a difference.

Be aware that for fence sitters such an open arrogance would push them off the fence in, from the evolutionist perspective, the wrong direction.
But at least I see you have adopted "claim/argument" in preference to "claim", so my good deed for the day is done and I can go scrape moss off the driveway.

Spectacular Presentation Of The Wonders Of God's Creation

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