Pope Francis had died at age 88

RileyG · Apr 28, 2025

Fantine said:
Pope Francis was the last person ever to put himself "above" other people. After becoming Pope, he continued to live in a guest house outside of the majestic Vatican, taking a bus to work as he did when he was a cardinal (as long as he was physically able.) In his first year as Pope, he went to a women's prison on Holy Thursday and washed the feet of Muslim prisoners (following Jesus, who washed the apostles' feet at the Last Supper.

On other holy days, he invited the homeless to shelter overnight at the Vatican.
In his will, he requested a far simpler burial than other Popes--one simple casket lined with zinc, and burial at a church in Vatican City where he liked to go and pray, with a simple headstone: "Francesco."

His solidarity with the poor and suffering and his moves towards inclusivity--for women, LGBTQ, and people of other faiths--or no faith--challenged every Catholic to meet a standard of unconditional generosity and love that was far more difficult than merely following the ten commandments.

He never put himself "above" anyone--but the world recognized his compassion, generosity, love--and saw him as a mirror of God's love.

Thank you.

RileyG · Apr 28, 2025

stevil said:
Condolences threads are usually just a cursory to wish condolences, not debates. Think of it like going to someone's funeral.
Do you then work the crowd and start talking about all the mistakes the person that died made?

There is certainly a time for that, but it is typically more graceful to not do that at funerals or in condolence threads.
Up to you really, I mean, there is no law against it. You carry yourself however you want. It's your reputation you are making after all.

Well said, sir.

ThatRobGuy · Apr 28, 2025

ThatRobGuy · Apr 28, 2025

DaisyDay said:
Seems in really bad taste to slam someone in their eulogy thread. There is a time and place; this isn't it.

Did he or did he not use kid gloves when it came to dealing with pederasts?

I'm not one who subscribes to the theory that we have to speak fondly of someone simply because they've passed on

Thus the reason conservatives were quite unhappy with me when they did their Rush Limbaugh tribute thread we he kicked the bucket, and I didn't mince words...

GoldenBoy89 · Apr 28, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
Did he or did he not use kid gloves when it came to dealing with pederasts?

I'm not one who subscribes to the theory that we have to speak fondly of someone simply because they've passed on

Thus the reason conservatives were quite unhappy with me when they did their Rush Limbaugh tribute thread we he kicked the bucket, and I didn't mince words...

Go start a thread about it then. You haven’t cared to mention this in 12 years he’s been the pope, now that he’s dead you want to talk about what he did and didn’t do as pope. If it’s such an important topic to you, go start another thread about it.

mindlight · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
Alright, I hate to be "that guy", but why are so many people (especially secularists) venerating a particular pope as if he's "above" other people?

To be clear, it's sad when someone dies, and I get that he had people who liked him.

But why is this "more special" than other similar scenarios?

Let's just be frank here, he was the latest person to "hold the office" in a long line of other popes who either failed to address (or handled with kid gloves) the issue of sexual abuse within the ranks of the clergy of his organization.

There is so much hypocrisy and misreporting in the secular media on child abuse that it is completely sickening. We live in a sexualized culture, and even the church is not invulnerable to that, but Catholics have performed better than many Protestant denominations and much better than the levels of secular sexual abuse occurring in schools. The church should be held to a higher standard. Pope Francis was clear in denouncing such abuse of clerical power. I bet he is glad to be free from all the poison spewed at the church on this issue now.

mindlight · Apr 29, 2025

Malleeboy said:
My guess is that people who are progressive believe he moved the church towards their position. Some conservatives (esp Catholics) feel guilty about their treatment of him. I must admit as a protestant (technically maybe a lapsed catholic, as I was baptized Catholic but raised Protestant) to enjoy Lutheran Satire's takes on Pope Francis somewhat garbled communication skills which often left people perplexed.
Whatever his faults, (which were probably far less than mine own) he certainly was a follower of Christ, who lived his life in service to the body of Christ. I can even concede that being Pope is probably a more difficult/complex role than any other Christian leader.

Representing the spiritual needs of 1,4 billion people to the Almighty was no small task and I believe more demanding than the role of Xi Jin Ping and PM Modi who have similar sized "congregations."

DaisyDay · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
Did he or did he not use kid gloves when it came to dealing with pederasts?

I'm not one who subscribes to the theory that we have to speak fondly of someone simply because they've passed on

Thus the reason conservatives were quite unhappy with me when they did their Rush Limbaugh tribute thread we he kicked the bucket, and I didn't mince words...

Again, this is a eulogy thread. It would be inappropriate to the mourners to trash the subject. I don't recall the Limbaugh eulogy thread but being rude to both sides is not exactly the flex implied.

Laodicean60 · Apr 29, 2025

I get the impression that nonbelievers think that Christians should be perfect. The bible says there is no one good, no matter how many times many Christians stroke their own egos and talk nonsense.
The Pope is looked up to by many, especially around where I live, and you'll find bad things about all people; after all, we are human.

Nithavela · Apr 29, 2025

stevil said:
Condolences threads are usually just a cursory to wish condolences, not debates. Think of it like going to someone's funeral.
Do you then work the crowd and start talking about all the mistakes the person that died made?

There is certainly a time for that, but it is typically more graceful to not do that at funerals or in condolence threads.
Up to you really, I mean, there is no law against it. You carry yourself however you want. It's your reputation you are making after all.

While I generally agree with the sentiment, this IS the discussion and debate forum.

Is there even a forum for condolence threads?

ThatRobGuy · Apr 29, 2025

DaisyDay said:
Again, this is a eulogy thread. It would be inappropriate to the mourners to trash the subject. I don't recall the Limbaugh eulogy thread but being rude to both sides is not exactly the flex implied.

It's for the reason I mentioned before

This idea that certain positions of prominence are "owed" a certain level reverence, especially when those certain "prominent positions" seem to have quite the low bar to clear in terms of having a grandiose "legacy", actually hamstrings positive change more than it helps promote it.

Pretend it's not a religious organization; pretend it's a company that's been riddled with sexual harassment issues over the years.

A new CEO comes in, and gives some lip service to the idea of reforms, and fires 2 of the 30 executives who engaged in such behavior, and allows the others to quietly resign/retire with a full pension.

If everyone describes that CEO with terms like
"He'll be known as a reformer"
"He'll be remembered as the guy who affected real change for the better"
etc... etc...

What kind of precedent does that set if the next CEO knows he can basically do the absolute bare minimum to correct wrongs, and be celebrated as some sort of "radical reformer for the good"?

In a practical sense, in terms of demanding accountability and "righting wrongs" with the behavior of the people who report to them, society has set a higher bar for the general manager of an Applebee's.

Laodicean60 · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
(or handled with kid gloves) the issue of sexual abuse within the ranks of the clergy of his organization.

What does kid gloves mean, and what would you have done differently besides making all preachers and priests eunuchs?

1. Acknowledgment and Apologies

Public apologies have been issued by popes and bishops, notably by Pope John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis.
In 2018, Pope Francis wrote a "Letter to the People of God", acknowledging systemic failures and calling for repentance.

2. Policy Changes and Canon Law Reforms

Zero-tolerance policies: Many dioceses now remove clergy from ministry after a single substantiated allegation.
In 2001, the Vatican centralized the handling of abuse cases under the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
In 2019, Pope Francis issued "Vos Estis Lux Mundi", requiring dioceses to report abuse and cover-ups, even by bishops.

3. Reporting and Accountability Mechanisms

Mandatory reporting to civil authorities is now standard in many countries, although not globally consistent.
Independent commissions or lay review boards have been established in various dioceses to assess abuse claims.

4. Support for Victims

Some dioceses have created support and compensation programs for survivors.
Counseling and pastoral care services are increasingly available.

5. Training and Prevention Programs

Clergy and Church workers now undergo safeguarding and child protection training.
Background checks and psychological evaluations are more common during seminary formation.

6. Legal and Financial Settlements

The Church has paid billions in settlements, leading some dioceses (e.g., in the U.S., Ireland) to file for bankruptcy.
Legal reforms in many countries have eliminated statutes of limitation for abuse claims.

Laodicean60 · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
Activists say pontiff also ‘turning a blind eye’

I don't know why you included his picture lol, I know what the Pope looks like. Thanks for the info. I can give him some kudos for the 2019 reform and his admision to the abuse of nuns. Is it all incopassing no but it is a step in the right direction. The kid gloves could be labeled to previous popes for a long history of abuse. As far as activist groups you know how their verbage is with any issue they decide to attack.

Francis promised to “spare no effort” to bring to justice paedophile priests and the bishops who covered up their crimes at an unprecedented summit in February 2019, an event that was supposed to mark a turning point in the handling of a scandal that has embroiled the Catholic church for decades.

A week before the summit, Francis became the first pontiff to publicly admit that priests had also sexually abused nuns, some of whom shared testimony during the event, and pledged to do more to fight the problem.

Three months later, the Vatican established procedures for every diocese to report allegations of abuse and foster accountability for the actions of bishops and cardinals. Francis also abolished the rule of “pontifical secrecy” – a kind of code of confidentiality – in an effort to improve transparency in sexual abuse cases.

DaisyDay · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
It's for the reason I mentioned before

This idea that certain positions of prominence are "owed" a certain level reverence, especially when those certain "prominent positions" seem to have quite the low bar to clear in terms of having a grandiose "legacy", actually hamstrings positive change more than it helps promote it.

Pretend it's not a religious organization; pretend it's a company that's been riddled with sexual harassment issues over the years.

A new CEO comes in, and gives some lip service to the idea of reforms, and fires 2 of the 30 executives who engaged in such behavior, and allows the others to quietly resign/retire with a full pension.

If everyone describes that CEO with terms like
"He'll be known as a reformer"
"He'll be remembered as the guy who affected real change for the better"
etc... etc...

What kind of precedent does that set if the next CEO knows he can basically do the absolute bare minimum to correct wrongs, and be celebrated as some sort of "radical reformer for the good"?

In a practical sense, in terms of demanding accountability and "righting wrongs" with the behavior of the people who report to them, society has set a higher bar for the general manager of an Applebee's.

Not on a eulogy thread.

stevil · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
This idea that certain positions of prominence are "owed" a certain level reverence,

No one, other than you, are saying that since this is the pope he is needed to be given special treatment here.

What we are saying is that since this person has just died and since this thread appears to be a condolences threat, it makes sense to show some grace and not use this particular thread to attack the recently departed. Just to show some respect to those that might be grieving at this moment.

Just pointing that out. Of course though if it is in your nature to continue attacking the person in this particular thread and nor feel the need to show any grace or dignity yourself, Then, no one can stop you. You carry yourself however you choose, With grace or disgrace. It's your choice.

ThatRobGuy · Apr 29, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
I don't know why you included his picture lol

it's the way the articles copied and pasted from the previous post...not sure why it formatted like that

RileyG · Apr 29, 2025

mindlight said:
There is so much hypocrisy and misreporting in the secular media on child abuse that it is completely sickening. We live in a sexualized culture, and even the church is not invulnerable to that, but Catholics have performed better than many Protestant denominations and much better than the levels of secular sexual abuse occurring in schools. The church should be held to a higher standard. Pope Francis was clear in denouncing such abuse of clerical power. I bet he is glad to be free from all the poison spewed at the church on this issue now.

Well said. It’s unfortunately a problem everywhere.

RileyG · Apr 29, 2025

ThatRobGuy said:
Did he or did he not use kid gloves when it came to dealing with pederasts?

I'm not one who subscribes to the theory that we have to speak fondly of someone simply because they've passed on

Thus the reason conservatives were quite unhappy with me when they did their Rush Limbaugh tribute thread we he kicked the bucket, and I didn't mince words...

Considering this is Christian forums, and the fact he did implement reform, I find it poisoning the well and goading for anyone to attack him like this, especially when the faithful are mourning.

The problem wasn’t pedophilia anyway, it was homosexual predation.

stevil · Apr 29, 2025

RileyG said:
The problem wasn’t pedophilia anyway, it was homosexual predation.

I don't want to debate this in this thread, but it is illegal pedophilia that is the problem, not legal homosexual relations.

RileyG · Apr 29, 2025

stevil said:
I don't want to debate this in this thread, but it is illegal pedophilia that is the problem, not legal homosexual relations.

Yes, some were indeed pedophiles, but most victims were teenage or young men. Disgusting and vile, regardless.

*Sexual assault, is not legal.

Pope Francis had died at age 88

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1. Acknowledgment and Apologies​

2. Policy Changes and Canon Law Reforms​

3. Reporting and Accountability Mechanisms​

4. Support for Victims​

5. Training and Prevention Programs​

6. Legal and Financial Settlements​

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1. Acknowledgment and Apologies

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